In part 2 of our interview with visually impaired Paralympian Ness Murby, Ness talks with us all about how the sport of para discus works and whether his guide dog Lexington is good at fetching the discus after throws.
Ness and his assistant (and wife) Eva have qualified for Tokyo via the World Champs, but they have to get through team selection and hopefully automatic selection at the Canadian nationals this summer. Follow their journey on social @nessmurby.
Our visit to TKFLASTAN to see what our team is up to includes updates from:
Throughout 2021 we’re revisiting great stories from Atlanta 1996! For our Atlanta 1996 moment this week we have a story about cauldron lighter Muhammad Ali.
Thanks so much for listening, and until next time, keep the flame alive!
Photo courtesy of Ness Murby.
TRANSCRIPT
Note: This is an uncorrected machine-generated transcript and may contain errors. Please check its accuracy against the audio. Do not quote from the transcript; use the audio as the record of note.
172: Ness Murby – Discus
Ness Murby: [00:00:00] All these nuances that no one realizes when you just watch it on the tell, it looks seamless. Of course. And I should say, ah, watch it on the telly. There’s no para coverage of
Theme Music
Jill Jaracz: Hello and welcome to another episode of keep the flame alive. The podcast for fans of the Olympics and Paralympics. I am your host. Jill. Jarris joined as always by my lovely co-host Allison brown, Allison. Hello, how are you today?
Alison Brown: I was exposed
Jill Jaracz: to what
Alison Brown: C
Jill Jaracz: no.
Alison Brown: Well, it was [00:01:00] at the doctor’s office that I was at.
So I don’t actually know if I was exposed, but I gotta go get tested today.
Jill Jaracz: Oh gee.
Alison Brown: But I think of it this way. This is the first time I’ve had to get tested.
Jill Jaracz: Oh, well
Alison Brown: from an exposure, which is pretty darn good. Unfortunately for my daughter, it’s like her 20th test.
Jill Jaracz: Oh man.
Alison Brown: She’s had that. Q-tip shoved up her nose so many times.
Jill Jaracz: It doesn’t sound fun, but I guess it’s, you know, quick enough,
Alison Brown: I hope so. [00:01:30] We’ll find out. I’ll let you know
Jill Jaracz: if,
Alison Brown: yeah. I mean, we’re totally asymptomatic, but we just don’t wanna go wandering around. Having had possibly
Jill Jaracz: right, right. Being
Alison Brown: exposed.
Jill Jaracz: You know, if I ever have to get tested, maybe I can ask them, can you just poke my brain?
So it functions a little bit better.
Alison Brown: that would be nice. And I’m wondering what else they’re gonna find up there because I do still sound like I’m smoking a pack of menthols. And screaming at my 47 children all the time. [00:02:00] I just, I don’t know what is going on. So, I mean, I assume it is January, so that is what is going on, but
Jill Jaracz: you never know.
All right, well, let’s give your voice a break and dive into our interview. We’re talking with visually impaired Paralympian me again, nest competed at the 2016 Paralympics in the sport of discus. Last week, we talked with them about competing as a visually impaired athlete. So if you didn’t get that conversation, be sure to go back and listen to it.
Cause it’s really fascinating. [00:02:30] And this week we’re talking about how pared discus works. Take a listen. Okay, well, let’s talk about competition and talk about discus. What is a discus made out of and how heavy is.
Ness Murby: so a disc is, can be made of many materials. You’ve got like, um, standard, uh, steel rimmed with abs plastic plates.
On either side, you can also have fiberglass plates. You can have wood plates, you can have the entire disc made out of metal and. [00:03:00] That, uh, affects the weighting of the discus, cuz you can also have a discus that is more centrally weighted or having a higher rim weight. And these are things that, um, you’ll pick depending on your throw, whether you want more of a spin, less of a spin, whether you are a beginner thrower or an advanced thrower, but there are set, um, parameters for how, uh, thick the discus can be.
And it’s diameter according to your sports class. And that comes [00:03:30] down to the gender binary as well as age groups as well as in parasport your classification. So in my class we’re throwing one kilo discuses.
Jill Jaracz: Okay. And then discus, you stand in a circle. What are the rules regarding the circle where you’re allowed to stand?
What, where, where you can’t go.
Ness Murby: So when you walk into, uh, the cage, which is the area around the circle, when you walk into the cage, anything’s. Quote, unquote, up for grabs. You [00:04:00] can, you can walk anywhere you like once you step into the circle. Now these are standard rules. I’ll go through the standards first and then I’ll go through the adaptations.
Once you step into the circle and you are preparing to throw, you may not exit the circle or it voids the throw. Um, you may not step over the front of the circle and when you have finished your throw, you have to exit out the back. Now, when I say that you may [00:04:30] not step out of the circle, that actually comes down to the very specific rule that you may not touch.
The top of the circle. A disco circle is inset. And if your shoe happens to be slightly, you know, further than your toe and it tips up at the edge and it touches that, that top, that rim of the circle that also voids your throat. so there’s a lot of technicalities in that. You also may not leave the circle until the disc [00:05:00] has landed.
So you have to be able to steady yourself and St and stay in there until you’ve seen that you’ve been given the signal, the disc’s landed, and then you exit out the back. So quite, quite technical, you wouldn’t want to, uh, make a, uh, any sort of faux PA, which, um, you know, in my initial days of shot put I did, but, uh, I was very, very lucky that, uh, it was a competition in Japan and those competing against me actually took the time to try to explain the rules to Eva and I, that when you throw a [00:05:30] put or in any circle we found out, you may not step out the front of the circle.
It’s a steep learning curve. before entering the cage, there’s also rules around when you are called and when you’re allowed to pick up a discus. And when you can get prepared and being given, you have to wait for your name to be announced so that you can walk into the circle and you’re given a time limit of how much time you may have now going into adaptations of that as an F [00:06:00] 11 thrower, Eva will actually guide me from wherever I am outside of the cage area in the designated.
We will walk up when we’re told that we’re coming up, they, they announce who’s throwing and who’s next and the equivalent of who’s on deck. And so we’ll go up and get closer. Eva will retrieve the discus off the rack for me. Um, I can hold the discus and when it’s our time to go in, we wait for the name.
Eva walks me in Eva, gets me set up [00:06:30] inside the circle. Orientates me to where the back is, helps me work out that I am knowing where the front is, cuz it’s not actually just as simple as here’s the back, work it out, you know, sometimes, uh, I’m off. And then I will hold my position with the Diskus. Whilst Eva leaves the cage.
Once Eva leaves the cage, the official will announce. That I’m allowed to start my throat and the rules [00:07:00] have been adapted from, uh, having 60 seconds to having 30 seconds to release the disc. I believe they are reverting back to, to 60. Uh, I do apologize. I didn’t, uh, quite confirm that, uh, but it’s always good to, to be prepared to throw in the shortest amount possible 30 seconds is a really short time.
So you’ve got 30 seconds. I have to make my, my discus movement, my spin, my release within 30 seconds. If I get disorientated [00:07:30] in the circle, I may stop. I may put up my hand, they will stop the clock. Eva can come back in, reset me up, leave the circle, and I have whatever is left on the time. So it’s really important to have a good rapport to, to be, have a repeatable technique.
Oh, and once I have released the discus, then I’m waiting for the, the queue down and Eva will then be permitted to come [00:08:00] into the, the cage, but she is not permitted to touch me. She has to vocally direct me out of the circle if she has to make contact with me, that voids the throat.
Jill Jaracz: Huh? That’s interesting.
Ness Murby: All these nuances that no one realizes when you just watch it on the telly, it looks seamless and I should say, watch it on the telly. There’s no para coverage of,
Alison Brown: I would think you, it would be very easy to get [00:08:30] disoriented in the circle. Like that would take a lot of practice, not to lose your place. H how do you not lose your place?
Ness Murby: That is exactly. what is a huge, huge struggle. So techniques. Will range from anything from a standing throw to a full spin. I personally do not do the full spin.
And part of that is because of the disorientation factor. And part of that is also because I have, [00:09:00] uh, damage to my, my left leg from playing blend cricket, putting a wicked spike through the side of my knee. That’s another story. So in terms of, of that, when you’re, you’re working out orientation and what an athlete’s tendency to do is, so what we have practiced a lot is trying to work on when Eva lines me up, she’s giving me an indication of where I need to set my right foot.
And in [00:09:30] training, we spend a lot of time trying to repeat my first step. Learning how my body feels when I’m moving. And yeah, this is a lot of trial and error. I have actually wiped out in the circle as I’m using as it is. It’s not so much. So when you’re cracking your head off the pavement and that’s, you know, it, it’s part of learning.
I think everybody has their, you know, their, their, their kryptonite, their obstacles to, to [00:10:00] overcome. And that one was really hard for me. So what we also were able to, um, recognize is that for me to maintain balance, I needed to have doms and doms are delayed onset muscle soreness, and that’s. It, it, it translates through my events, um, from understanding where the horizon is, the back of the circle, which way is forward, is my shoulder dropping or level.
And this comes about by being able to [00:10:30] relate to my biomechanical feedback. So for me, having some doms, um, to compete optimally is really important because in training and during taper, I’m always gonna have sore muscles. So a lot of athletes don’t touch weight, pre competition, but I do because that really helps me to have a sense of my body in relation to, to the space, to, to time and space.
And it takes a lot of adapted work to create that repeatable [00:11:00] movement. And if I’m too loose, I’m going to have greater flexibility in, in my, my hips or my arms going to whip too much. And I’m not gonna. The same feedback from that also in terms of, um, orientation in the circle, a huge factor is noise. It is.
And I’m gonna say it was. My SIS, uh, in terms of noise, um, you know, it, everything [00:11:30] happens, uh, when it’s supposed to timing is rarely perfect, but, uh, you know, usually, uh, an incredible growth opportunity. I had my first experience of stadium noise when I entered the Rio stadium and never experienced it before in my, my life.
I’d read the rule book, uh, VI events, uh, uh, they ask for silence. So, and, and when you’re competing locally or, or even at, um, you [00:12:00] know, grand PR events, uh, the, the circles are outside or even away from the track. So I’m here to tell you that inside a stadium with, you know, vast numbers of spectators who are just like fueled up and raring to, to drive you on that noise.
Is is definite deafening. It’s like being in a wind tunnel. It just, it not only like pushed me backwards, but it also whipped my, my voice [00:12:30] away Eva’s voice away. And, um, orientating through that was, I am proud, uh, to, to say. That I recognize it was a disaster I am very proud to be a Paralympian. I have learned a lot on the journey and that kind of noise without preparation is in fact a disaster.
Um, I’m sure, you know, someone said something about how many light bulbs and, um, so, but finally come up with a, with a design that [00:13:00] works. So I actually ruptured an eardrum and, uh, I lost 10% of my hearing in my right ear. Um, so that certainly changed how I orientated and how Eva, Eva. Orientates me, um, within the circle, we now don’t just use audible cues.
We use a lot of hand gestures touches, you know, her foot, uh, kicking against my, the outside of my foot to know where I’m lining up those sorts of things. And. In trying to meet that moment as we go [00:13:30] forward. That’s also changed how we train even, and I use squash courts so that I’m subjected to, um, echoes and, um, really loud reverberations, um, just of, of noise.
If you try, you know, throwing a, a slam ball down a med ball down in a squash Corp. Yep. That creates a lot of noise. Also, we have, uh, negotiated access to a throwing cage that is right on the corner of, uh, a main road. [00:14:00] So, you know, following that, that distracting traffic noise. And we did spend some time previously, um, competing on the, the ground pre circuit, um, which is the para, um, equivalent of the diamond league so that we could get, um, experience in, in other closed stadiums.
There still weren’t as as much of, um, an audience, but I can tell you that competing in, in Paris with a. Huh brass band right behind the [00:14:30] disco’s cage really helped. Um, and the other thing is we started incorporating earplugs, which, you know, is a challenge in itself. It’s sort of the last resort because as a, as an F 11, um, I don’t like being totally deaf.
So, you know, but working out ways to be able to, to be able to adapt through it, it’s, it’s certainly a, a growth process. And as you can imagine, so many, um, facets and, and, and calculations and, and thoughts that go into this [00:15:00] final result, that is three throws. And if you’re lucky to be in the top eight of those three, three more , and that’s what it comes down to in terms of a lot of the externalized.
And, and for those of us on the journey, I can tell you that. What happens in the stadium is so much more than that day. That moment, that second, it is the character we build on the journey.
Jill Jaracz: I have to ask [00:15:30] because you stand, where does the momentum all come from? Because when, when we see discus athletes, do the spin, a lot of the momentum for the throw comes from that spin.
So what do you do to increase your distance? And where does the throw come from in your body?
Ness Murby: Yeah, that’s a really good, um, good question. And I can say that I had the same one when I started cuz uh I knew nothing about [00:16:00] discos, knew nothing about javelin either. Um, you were little about short, just, uh, by my assumed, you know, pick up something heavy and just throw it.
That was really wrong. Do not assume things. So in 2014, when I was first handed a discus and, and told what to do with it, I, I had the very same question. so how it works is, um, you don’t just stand still and release. You are using all of the levers within your [00:16:30] body to execute that force. So when I say that, um, some people do a standing throw.
You actually will wind you’ll have your, your feet in a, in a set position, but you are winding your body back. And then, um, I guess slamming the hip forward, opening up your torso and then whipping your throw up. So personally, I actually do a, a part rotation. [00:17:00] So, and in that you’re actually getting a force coming through movement as well.
And, uh, what happens is you are going to be working on acceleration through this very small split second of time with a lot of tightly wound force. So my right foot will take its first step that spins me a halfway into the center of the circle. And from that I’m then changing [00:17:30] feet to drive my left leg back towards the front of the circle.
Then I’m turning my hip. And then I’m whipping my left arm. That’s called a block arm. And with all of that force combined, it is actually driving my long extended throwing right arm forward. And that’s what works together to create this, uh, if you will, this, this elastic [00:18:00] pivot point of movement
Jill Jaracz: in the sense like it’s good, strong thighs, good abs strong back strong shoulders that really help.
Make your
Ness Murby: growth. Yes. And I think, you know, uh, whilst you’re at it, why not say that that throwing is pretty much a whole body sport? Uh, little did I know when I first started, I thought I’m a power lifter. I can, I can throw things far. Yeah. It really requires [00:18:30] agility, power, speed, and essentially a good core.
I cannot emphasize how much core work goes into this. Yeah. um, I, I have had to learn to really respect my core because, um, it, it does a lot for the turning, for the, you know, back injuries, those sorts of things. And also in terms of when you’re talking trajectory, you know, imagine this, that you’re, you’re turning kind of like a cock screw that is [00:19:00] trying to get a wider orbit as well as faster at the same time.
So you’re wanting to start building that momentum, building that angle, and you’ve only got two turns. Effectively to do it in, and that’s where you need to have that fast reflex, you know, the fast Twitch muscles as well, because that’s, what’s going to fire it. If you throw a discus, when you’re feeling slow or sluggish, compare it to the same technique the [00:19:30] next day, where you’ve got fast Twitch, you’re gonna get meters on that disc, as you know, beyond what you did the day before.
Alison Brown: And you may hit it official
Ness Murby: well, hopefully not. Um, but hopefully that they would be willing to accept the trade off if it was a personal best and potentially a metal winning record. I’m just, you know?
Jill Jaracz: Yeah. So what is the, the visually impaired learning curve when you’re, when you, when you’re learning the sport or trying to [00:20:00] improve.
Ness Murby: Yeah. Um, as a VI in learning these throwing events, it’s incredibly hard to learn technical accuracy because there’s no one to see it being demonstrated. There’s, there’s no way to, to feel it being demonstrated. The movements have to be broken down as best they can so that I can feel certain aspects. And inevitably, when you slow down a movement, the demonstration’s going to be less natural in this form than if it was performed in its split second.
Or if I [00:20:30] was able to watch a, a slow mode video, so asking a movement to be demonstrated whilst I’m filling it also opens up, um, this idea of encroaching on people’s personal space, both mine and the person showing it because, um, sometimes a movement needs to be demonstrated. By manipulating my body to, to try and explain to me a concept.
You know, one such concept was the idea of a long arm that I thought in discu, when you [00:21:00] spin, you would wanna keep things close to your body. And that’s part of what you have to fight with a long arm in discu is to get further with the desk. You need to have a really long arm to build up that momentum.
And at the end of the day, sometimes things just can’t be translated. So we need to interpret and adapt. And this is also why explicit conversations are vital for understanding growth. Because for example, my logic told me that to throw a discus outward, I needed to [00:21:30] stop my throwing arm in front of me.
For example, at the, the 12 o’clock, um, position and released the disc. How else would a disc just go forward? It wasn’t until I inadvertently followed through one day, uh, having my throwing arm, like I released, but my throwing arm kept going beyond my left shoulder. As I turned. That the conversation actually came out.
I explained my understanding why I had been previously stopping and my coach said that they thought, um, I just couldn’t [00:22:00] do it. And so that they’d never corrected me. And that’s where, especially in para sport, we need to be having conversations so that we can really understand where each other’s coming from and, and whether it’s just a cognitive misunderstanding or, uh, a physical inability.
And that translates through my events from, from everything, you know, understanding the horizon, the back of the circle, um, and the technique itself.
Jill Jaracz: Yeah. That’s really interesting. And to [00:22:30] find, find people who are willing to tell you how it’s supposed to look or tell you how it, it try to find a way to have you feel how it’s supposed to feel.
That’s. Very difficult and it takes the right person, coach, other athlete. Who’s willing to, to walk you through that,
Ness Murby: exactly. This, this idea of why we need to be having a lot more conversations is because even with the best of intentions, we might have [00:23:00] inadvertently made an assumption. And so having people who are willing to take the time, because it might take me longer to understand a, uh, a concept that’s never occurred to me or to put themselves out there and, and correct me with something that they don’t know whether is, is an ability issue or an explanation issue.
And I, I think that’s also why PariSport is, is this amazing world of, of experience because. You [00:23:30] know, 7.8 billion people in the world were all individual. You go to para sport and it’s the epitome of the example of individuality. I do not throw a disc as the same way as the other F 11 S in my category.
Uh, someone else will, will be throwing a javelin totally differently to someone who is next to them or someone in a different class. And so I think it really brings to light that in PariSport it’s less common [00:24:00] in my opinion, that we are aiming for the, the sameness aiming for the emulation of, of there being one right technique.
And that’s why great para coaches make a huge difference.
Alison Brown: You talked at the beginning about that whole idea of limiting beliefs. And it’s not just people who are being dismissive it’s often, it sounds like people who are trying to be supportive and helpful, and yet they have these kind of implicit [00:24:30] biases that they don’t even realize are there
Ness Murby: totally.
I mean, this is when we start to unpack, um, you know, the world’s orthodoxy. We, we need to be questioning orthodoxy in every avenue of our lives. And so it’s not about someone is intentionally causing harm. It’s about this idea of somehow we’ve entered into an unspoken agreement. That we shouldn’t talk about things.
And that’s where having [00:25:00] conversations I believe is the only way to yeah. Start unpacking these limiting beliefs start, um, recognizing as well that one person isn’t gonna be same as the other. And that it also means as individuals, we have to learn not to take things personally. I welcome questions because I would rather have the conversation.
I would rather invite the perspective shift that isn’t just happening for that person asking the question it’s also happening for me because the more that we [00:25:30] get, um, a plethora of these perspectives, the more we’re gonna stop categorizing things and entering that, that cognitive rigidity of knowing rather than learning the, the, the worst place I believe we can be coming from is a place of knowing rather than a place of, of sharing and exploring and, um, conversing.
Alison Brown: The one thing that I will say all power athletes have. Had in common gallows humor, [00:26:00] the humor about their own differences and, and abilities versus disabilities has definitely been consistent because Jill and I were always, we don’t wanna use the wrong word. We wanna be respectful. And they’re like, oh no, it’s fine.
We’ll, the say, I’ll say the terrible word first. Like, okay,
Ness Murby: indeed. I mean, I think it’s, it’s about really being able to, to laugh at oneself, you know, it’s like, laughter doesn’t have to be disrespectful as long as we [00:26:30] keep our intentions. I mean, I’m, uh, one of the first people to say, you know, yeah, sorry I would skydive, but it scares my dog.
Oh, you know it it’s . Yeah.
Jill Jaracz: Lexington
Alison Brown: and I, I will jump in front of a truck for Lexington. I, while we were talking, I looked up a picture of him and now he’s my favorite dog from Rio too.
Ness Murby: Fantastic. But when you talk about commonalities between people there’s commonalities between [00:27:00] guy dogs too, who are so individual, both my dogs had this really amazing, profound ability to yawn when I’m doing my peak performance, whether it be like the heaviest deadlift, you know, or, or the, the furthest throw, it’s like, oh, thanks.
Alison Brown: I do wanna know just cause they knew you could do it. They knew there was all confidence on their part. They’re just like, yeah, it’s fine.
Ness Murby: nothing special here.
Jill Jaracz: Yeah. You may [00:27:30] not know the answer to this, but like when, when Lexington can’t come onto the field to play and is off in a different field, does he know that it’s, he’s not working and can just like all the guy, guy dogs run around, like they’re in a big dog park or something.
Ness Murby: Oh, that’s a really good question. Um, so actually I do keep him in, uh, uh, if he’s, um, if L is in the training, uh, warmup, uh, tent area, I certainly do keep him, um, in [00:28:00] on duty mode, just in the sense of, um, you know, we all need to behave well in, in public. We, we certainly don’t want a Lex thinking it’s squeak toy run around the yard time.
That being said, when it is off duty time, he’s certainly aware. So what happens is the harness being on and being off is the indication of work time. And not everyone, um, will approach it the same way, but in my case, not letting anyone touch my guide dog [00:28:30] when the harness is on, because otherwise it blurs the lines.
So, yeah, Lex, um, uh, is, is amazing. Got his harness on. He’ll just stay, uh, still relaxed, calm on his travel mat, um, when the harness is on and if I’m doing something, if I’m needing to, to warm up or if I’m needing to get, um, physio treatment, et cetera. And if he’s being watched by someone I’ve got him tethered or they’re holding onto, um, the leash.
When the harness is off, however, [00:29:00] yes, that, that is the indication of he is free to be himself. And when we’re out and about, I will give him off-ish time to run around and play that dog can go to zero to a hundred miles in about Ooh, 10 seconds. Um, and you know, it’s, it’s amazing to, to recognize like all of.
Having the game face, the personalities and the, um, and the code of conduct in different areas. And that’s also about respecting other [00:29:30] cultures at world events and, and, or the organizing committee it’s important. Um, for me not to have Lex behaving and in a manner that might, um, encroach on other people’s comfort zone as they’re preparing for, for competition or, um, the host countries as they’re setting up, not everybody is as comfortable with dogs and that’s really important.
And I don’t want to jeopardize access for, for guide dogs in any way. I, I actually want to be increasing the access for guide dogs. So that’s where we [00:30:00] really need to make sure, um, in terms of myself and Lexington, That we’re actually setting that, that good example. But, uh, he, he travels with a, um, a little bed and, and he squeak toys and, um, he’s a very little, uh, monkey toy and he, you know, the team loves him.
Um, he, he comes out, uh, as the, the therapy puppy when he harnesses is taken off. And, um, I think that, yeah, that’s a, that’s a, a huge part of, of the side of PariSport as well. [00:30:30]
Alison Brown: Well, Lexington is Canadian, I’m sure he’s always incredibly.
Ness Murby: Oh, uh, he, he certainly, as he was, um, born in, um, uh, actually, uh, Vancouver, Washington, and, uh, comes from, uh, guide dogs for the blind in, in, in Oregon.
And I think going from, from that, and then coming to, to Canada, he was set up well, uh, he also knows how to kindly, but firmly asked for belly robs. And I think that’s part of the, the therapy dog aspect of him.[00:31:00]
Jill Jaracz: let’s talk about your experiences at Rio
Ness Murby: mm-hmm .
Jill Jaracz: So how long ahead of time did you go down there?
Ness Murby: We actually went to, uh, Juita for first, for a, uh, training camp ahead of time. Um, I think it was, uh, it was just shy of, um, a week that we were in Juita for. And, uh, then we got into the village 48 hours before my event.
Jill Jaracz: Oh, wow. Were you [00:31:30] early on in the program or was that later in the program?
Ness Murby: Uh, I was earlier on and, um, uh, I think in terms of feedback and, and what works for, for my competitive readiness is to have a bit more time as a VI orientating, to, to new surroundings takes, uh, a lot of mental, um, resilience and, and capacity.
So that was a bit, a bit to take on that being said. I think the, the host [00:32:00] country had done a phenomenal job in terms of, um, having the village set up and, and training venues ready. And, um, certainly the spirit of the games was there from the get go.
Alison Brown: Did you go to opening ceremonies?
Ness Murby: No. Um, at the time, uh, our athletics team were not permitted to, to attend opening ceremonies.
Growing up. I mean, I, I saw the Olympic opening ceremonies and the, and the Paralympic opening ceremonies. And I certainly thought of [00:32:30] that as being a, a readiness factor, a, a rising of spirit and, and, and a Rite of passage, not everything happens how we imagine it to go on the outside. So it was a shock to me to be told that we weren’t attending that being said, you know, there was plenty of spirit, um, within my event,
Jill Jaracz: how was competition for you?
Because you did get to the second round.
Ness Murby: The, the competition experience was, um, was a whole bundle of [00:33:00] excitement and, uh, anxiety and, uh, the mix of the new and the first with the practiced and, um, uh, the preemptive, uh, so showing up at the warm up track, outside the stadium before my event, uh, showing up, uh, three hours before my event.
Was sort of this, the first breath as you step off the, the bus that suddenly you realize, I realized, wow, [00:33:30] I’m, I’m here. Okay. This, you know, and yet it’s quiet, you know, from, from where you’re, you’re getting off the bus and it’s not as loud as I imagined, but I can, I can feel the energy in the air. Everyone is who is there, is there in readiness for some sort of performance?
I mean, even the, the, the coaches and the, the, the team staff, everyone is there with a performance in mind of some sort. So this energy that’s around. And [00:34:00] I remember sort of being aware of trying to get myself in that, that space and, and many things come up. So like, you know, coaches are changed, uh, support staff that are going to be there have been changed.
So you’re really having to adapt. At the moment, you know, in a split second and what you thought was going to be, isn’t going to be. And, and so there’s this energy build up. And after doing warmups, you go, um, from that into, uh, the call room [00:34:30] and that’s, uh, quite some time before your event and, you know, you can be in the C room for, for an hour.
Um, so moving through to that and, and sort of sitting in a, a waiting area, there’s, there’s nowhere really to move around. So once again, you’ve moved from this outdoor fresh air space to this room that’s sort of beneath to the side of. The actual stadium. And again, it’s, it’s buzzing and it’s different.
And there’s these sounds that are going around and you’re needing to [00:35:00] unpack your, your kit bag that you have with you, because everything gets checked, what you have, um, what you’re allowed to take on stage. Um, you can’t have labels showing this is where the shades are checked for the first time eye patches are applied.
You put on your throwing shoes in our case, uh, it started bucketing with rain. Um, so it was sort of a, okay. Yeah. Gotta get on, uh, jackets, um, and work out how that’s going to go. And [00:35:30] then there’s this moment of sort of, I would call it for me a, an anxious clarity as we getting ready to be led into the stadium.
And I say anxious because. Anxious. Isn’t always negative. It’s sort of this, this tightness, this, this lift this holding in time. And then there’s this clarity of this is where you are representing your country and you are about to walk out. [00:36:00] The two of us are about to be team Canada in front of. The world and we take this breath.
Um, I take Eva’s elbow and we start to walk and you’re being led by an official at the front. And each, uh, athlete and sports assistant is, is, you know, sort of, uh, equally spaced as we have a procession onto the, onto the [00:36:30] field of play. And I just remember hearing from different angles, people cheering, there’s races going on, you need to stop and wait, you can’t just cross the track you need to cross in between races.
And just this walk is also this time where there’s a lot for me. There was a lot flowing through my mind and we get to our place on the field and it is [00:37:00] time to work and pretty much it comes down to. Line up what what’s at stake, what’s at play meaning, um, are my discusses there? Have they made it through, um, the check-in process?
You know, uh, the sound is really loud. Okay. What I’m gonna do? Where’s the seating, what’s the warm up. So you start doing this quick check run through, and then it’s game time and everything that you have worked for is what tools you have to draw on in that [00:37:30] moment.
Alison Brown: Now watching it on TV, it seemed like there was so much enthusiasm in that stadium from the fans.
You talked about the noise, but how was the feeling of it? I’m sure was that the, the most crowded stadium you’ve ever competed.
Ness Murby: Certainly, and I guess I should, uh, start with a little tongue and cheek and go, you saw my event on television. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t televised. , you know,
Alison Brown: back in field overall.
Jill Jaracz: Yeah. In the, in the us, [00:38:00] they, they actually showed a fair amount of Rio. Rio was the, like a big turning point, I think in us television coverage of how many hours they showed and it’s only going to increase over time. So the, the,
Ness Murby: oh, totally. I think there’s been a lot of work, a lot of voices that have really put in to bring the Paralympic movement to the forefront.
And that’s why I say tongue in cheek, but you’re right. I think there was also a turning point in [00:38:30] 2012 and, you know, with, with the, the British approach to para sport. And I mean, so yes, in all seriousness though, it was the largest, most filled stadium I have ever. Competed in to this day, you know, world championships have nothing on this.
I mean, world championships, uh, are that I’ve been to, uh, have been anywhere from quiet to reasonably impressive, uh, [00:39:00] in, in, in London, 2017, but Rio, I mean, there’s also this amazing dare I say it. Um, south American energy that was sort of the, you’ve got actual things called noise makers, being shook and rattled and fired off.
You’ve got people screaming. You’ve got, as I said, the, the, the track athletes running around you, it was phenomenal. And just paralyzing at the [00:39:30] same time. and paralyzing being the I wasn’t afraid. I actually was just too busy rummaging through my, my toolbox going. What do I do with this? this
Theme Music: is great.
Ness Murby: You know, how, how do I actually, uh, pro perform considering I’ve walked into this, relying on my sound and hearing,
Jill Jaracz: oh,
Ness Murby: guess I should have packed better for that one.[00:40:00]
Jill Jaracz: So you, you ended up placing sixth. How did you feel about your performance, especially considering the extra adaptability you had to do with the noise factor?
Ness Murby: I’m really proud of Rio as an experience for me so much came out of that. Placing sixth is a phenomenal landmark in the journey that just keeps going this [00:40:30] idea of looking at something and going, wow.
I don’t know if I’ve ever been sixth in the world in any sort of. Para athletics event. And as I unpacked that, of course, I mean, it, it would be, uh, a disservice to, to anyone else on their journey to not say there were a lot of emotions. I was certainly caught off guard in that stadium. It was hard to self regulate and, um, have the [00:41:00] resilience.
I went into Rio, uh, ranked third in the world. I came out sixth and that in terms of the sporting orthodoxy told me that I wasn’t good enough. According to my inner critic. It’s really interesting when you unpack a, a Paralympic experience, I can honestly say that I am really proud of my experience in. It [00:41:30] would be doing a disservice if I didn’t unpack that further for anyone else who’s listing and potentially is, is going through their, their first experiences or, or, you know, starting their, their dreams.
And that’s to say that I went in third and I came out sixth and certainly the orthodoxy that I understood of sport had my inner critic telling me that that was not enough, that I had failed, that I had let a lot of people [00:42:00] down, including my, and my sports assistance team, because that’s my part of the teamwork is certainly the releasing of the, the disc.
And as I’ve gone forth in, in my journey of sport, what I realize is there is no one moment that defines us. And I certainly am proud to be a Paralympian. The Rio experience was phenomenal. I’ve learned so much and [00:42:30] it is only natural. To have trouble self-regulating in your first experience. And the only thing that I regret is that potentially in that journey of, of having so much, um, you know, in a narrative going on that I, I wasn’t present for some of the, the moments during that time on field, but in the big picture, Rio was phenomenal.
The games itself, the, the [00:43:00] whole, um, journey to Rio. What, what happened for the Paralympic movement in, in making Rio possible? It’s all part of the story. So yeah, I came sixth, then Rio. I am a Paralympian and I’m really proud of who I am and who we are as a team, Eva. And I did phenomen.
Jill Jaracz: So after competition, did you attend other events?
Ness Murby: Yeah, actually, um, [00:43:30] I, uh, am really, um, a huge supporter of wheelchair rugby. So that was one of the goals of my to-do list if possible. And so we went and watched, uh, rugby, uh, wheelchair rugby and the, even the, to the finals of those. And that was amazing. And that’s part of, um, I think the spirit of the, the Paralympic games in comparison to sports specific championships, that ability to [00:44:00] see, I mean, as, as the motto is to see spirit in motion beyond just our own sport, our own discipline.
And that’s phenomenal.
Jill Jaracz: Did you get to go to the closing ceremonies?
Ness Murby: Yes. Uh, the closing ceremonies, um, were my, you know, obviously being my very first closing ceremonies, um, were. An amazing experience in, in recognizing how one transitions from one games to then I guess, [00:44:30] stoking the embers for the next games.
So it was really interesting to see that handover happen between Rio coming to a close and then that, um, that drive that, um, that goal being set for Tokyo with the CU in Tokyo, uh, presentation that that came about at the closings. That was phenomenal.
Jill Jaracz: Thank you so much. Nest nest and his sports assistant Ava have qualified for Tokyo via the world champs, but [00:45:00] they have to get through team selection and hopefully automatic selection at the Canadian nationals.
This summer, you can follow their journey@tougherthan.com and on, uh, social he’s nest Mey on Twitter and.
Alison Brown: So when you were talking about Canadian nationals, I’m looking out my window and there’s actually a little snow on the ground. So I’m like, oh yeah, that’s what Canadian nationals in track and field would look like.
There’d be snow on the track.
Jill Jaracz: It’s one of those days, isn’t it? ,
Alison Brown: it’s not that they don’t live [00:45:30] in the north pole live in Western Canada.
Jill Jaracz: Why don’t we check in with our team, keep the flame alive and see what they’re up to.
Theme Music: Welcome to shook Liston.
Jill Jaracz: Speaking of nest Murphy, he’s hosting a series of videos on how blind people compare, prepare for emergencies. The series is produced by accessible media, Inc. And you can find it on YouTube and we will have a link to that in the show notes thought it was very interesting.
Alison Brown: Hmm. At the [00:46:00] us figure skating championships, Nate bar toay and partner, Katie McBeth finished seventh in both the short and lung programs for a seventh place.
Overall,
Jill Jaracz: I gotta say, coming back from knee surgery. New partner, seventh place in the nationals, not bad,
Alison Brown: not bad. I’ll take it
Jill Jaracz: exactly
Alison Brown: like I’m the one skating.
Jill Jaracz: at the tier pro swim series in San Antonio, Mallory. Erford placed 12th in the 100 meter butterfly [00:46:30] 11th in the 200 meter freestyle sixth in the 50 meter freestyle and fifth in the hundred meter freestyle her 100 meter time of 56 0 2 made the cut for the us Olympic trials.
Alison Brown: Yay.
Jill Jaracz: Congratulations to her
Alison Brown: at the second week up by Athlon racing in Boff, Claire Egan placed 36 in the sprint 12th in the women’s four by six kilometer relay and 28th in the mass start. She’s ranked 23rd in the overall standings and there at, on tops this [00:47:00] weekend. Which is the site from Milan Cortina.
Jill Jaracz: So it’s beautiful there, I’m very excited.
Alison Brown: No doubt. Claire posted a very funny Instagram video of her using one of those foam rollers.
Jill Jaracz: Mm-hmm
Alison Brown: on her leg. And as she was doing it, the face she was making was such sheer pain.
Jill Jaracz: They hurt
Alison Brown: my yes. And I can imagine after some of these races, they’re harder. The foam roller recession [00:47:30] is probably more painful than the race
Jill Jaracz: and she’s probably foam rolling longer than she spends on the sprint course, to be quite honest.
It’s
Alison Brown: true.
Jill Jaracz: Uh, speed skater. Aaron Jackson is back to training after an eye injury. Uh, that is exciting news. And, uh, we look forward to seeing you back on the ice and.
Alison Brown: Chloe Kim is entered in this week’s locks open in Switzerland. After having a season off, she is back competing an Olympic channel airs live halfpipe [00:48:00] coverage on January 23rd at noon Eastern time,
Jill Jaracz: uh, in the us, very excited that she will be making a comeback.
Well, why don’t we go back in time and have a little Atlanta moment.
Alison Brown: So
Jill Jaracz: what do you got for us today?
Alison Brown: So obviously when Muhammad Ali lit the cauldron, that was one of the biggest moments of the opening ceremonies mm-hmm in Atlanta. And I came across this article from Atlanta magazine, [00:48:30] talking to different Georgians who were there and some of the athletes, but mostly just the regular people.
You know, someone working at the swatch kiosk, somebody who was one of the drummers. All their individual memories. And this was from Johnny B. Hall, who is now a retired state trooper, but at the time he was a Georgia state trooper. So this is, I’m gonna just read this straight. So this is all a quote. So for a week, I was the only state [00:49:00] trooper assigned to Muhammad Ali.
When we got to the Olympic stadium, the afternoon of the opening ceremony, I cracked my black Suburban’s windows down. And there was that chant, Ali, Ali, Ali. I thought we were going to get mobbed. My job was to stay with him until he had lit the Olympic torch with the Parkinson’s disease. He had, I told the officials, I ain’t sure he can hold that torch, but they said, give him a shot.
I was about 10 feet away from him [00:49:30] because if anything happened, I was on top of it to make sure. It got lit, but he knew what he had to do. It was unbelievable. I worked so many details over 31 years, this Olympic detail with Muhammad Ali is tops. It’s history. My grandkids can someday go back and look at it.
Jill Jaracz: Wow.
Alison Brown: You know, this is such a classic to me, of those people. You never think about
Jill Jaracz: exactly who play the, an important role in, I
Alison Brown: mean, [00:50:00] protecting Ali and protecting the fact that he was gonna like the cauldron and that wanted was gonna be a huge surprise.
Jill Jaracz: Right. Right.
Alison Brown: And he was very ill at the time. The Parkinson’s disease had significantly progressed.
So he wasn’t in public much.
Jill Jaracz: No.
Alison Brown: So seeing him in public, everybody would’ve known what was going on and to have one state trooper alone, that must have been so amazing.
Jill Jaracz: Right. And then when you, when he talks about [00:50:30] how. Fragile. The whole situation was really with having to maybe step in and, and light the caldron, if you could.
That’s I hadn’t really thought about it, but that’s a Testament to Ali and just the mindset where he said, okay, this is what I gotta do. We’re gonna make this happen. Even though I have this horrible disease. So, I mean, that makes a very iconic moment, even more meaningful.
Alison Brown: And knowing that the state trooper was, was [00:51:00] standing there, kind of ready to, to catch his arm.
If he faltered it all
Jill Jaracz: mm-hmm
Alison Brown: and just the pressure, he must have felt
Jill Jaracz: right.
Alison Brown: To take care of Muhammad Ali,
Jill Jaracz: but, huh, good moment. We will link to that magazine article in the show notes. Uh, let’s take a look and see what’s going on with Tokyo 2020.
There are still a lot of stories about whether Tokyo 2020 will be [00:51:30] happening or not, and still calls for cancellation from different bodies, different surveys that say the Japanese public don’t want the Olympics anymore. Tokyo 20, 20 CEO, Toshiro Moto told the AFP that the games are happening. There’s still no discussion of cancellation, but they don’t know whether or not they’ll have fans.
That’s the big thing. And we won’t know for a couple of months yet. We’ll see what happens,
Alison Brown: right? Yeah. I think the [00:52:00] competitions will happen.
Jill Jaracz: Mm-hmm
Alison Brown: will all countries be allowed into Japan? That will be interesting. The us probably being the biggest defender and will anybody be able to see it? I mean, at the us figure skating championships this weekend, there were obviously no fans and they had the paper cutouts.
And that was just, I can’t get used to it.
Jill Jaracz: It’s very weird. It’s very, when I watch by Athlon, it’s very weird to have no fans and still have the [00:52:30] announcers announcing and the music playing. So this past couple of weeks have been in over H and you know that they’ve just got this playlist because as competitors go off, there’s different songs that they play like James Bond themes, mission, impossible themes.
They pull ’em out of everything to be all exciting. And it’s, they try to get the atmosphere going, but there’s no 25,000 fans to lift everybody’s spirits up. So it’s, what’s been
Alison Brown: surprising me about watching sports without the fans [00:53:00] is I did not expect because most of the time we’re watching sports on TV and certainly I’m watching almost everything that I watch on TV even before COVID mm-hmm I, I was not big on seeing a lot of things live.
And how different it feels even watching it on TV.
Jill Jaracz: Right. And well, and you can hear a lot of the stuff on the field, or you can hear more than you used to be able to hear of how things are working. And, and that’s kind of interesting as well.
Alison Brown: Yeah. I didn’t expect figure skating to feel so [00:53:30] different.
Jill Jaracz: Yeah.
One thing that’s kind of interesting with this whole situation on who would get to come well, I’ve got a couple of points. One is the Australian openness, having a serious amount of trouble, getting people in and bubbled without getting COVID. But people have gotten some COVID that are part of the tour.
And that’s a real cause for concern. When, you know, you’ve seen other events happen and they’ve been okay, especially global events in the [00:54:00] tennis world, they managed to do it, but I don’t know how. The Australian open is kind of getting the worst end of it, really. But
Alison Brown: yeah, from what I, from what I have read players are not following the rules that it’s the athletes themselves that are causing the problem.
Jill Jaracz: Right. And you have to wonder is this fatigue at this point, because why wouldn’t you just follow the rules and play? Because if you don’t play guessing you don’t make your money. So I, I don’t know. It’s weird. There was an [00:54:30] interesting conversation that I was in on Twitter, where there was another BBC article, I think out of BBC Scotland that was talking about having these games.
And if athletes or countries, whole countries could not participate, would they be seen as legitimate? And I thought, you know what, nobody’s gonna remember that years later, nobody remembers back in the fifties when there were just a few dozen countries versus a hundred to 200 countries that we have now and [00:55:00] an Olympic medal, still an Olympic medal.
No matter
Alison Brown: for you
Jill Jaracz: to participate.
Alison Brown: We don’t, we don’t, as we’ve said before, you know, 1980 is kind of our whole, but certainly nobody questions. The gold medalist from 84,
Jill Jaracz: right?
Alison Brown: I mean maybe a little bit in gymnastics, just because that was so dominated by Eastern, but nobody questions, Carl Lewis’s gold medal from 84.
Jill Jaracz: Right.
Alison Brown: And you had a huge swath of major countries not coming mm-hmm so well, [00:55:30] I’m glad that it was the BBC that said that rather than a us paper, because the us is probably one of the countries greatest at risk for not being allowed in
Jill Jaracz: mm-hmm
Alison Brown: and certainly the largest team that would be banned. And the only people who would call that, not legitimate are the us centric.
We are amazing.
Jill Jaracz: Right.
Alison Brown: Except somehow we, you know, can’t wear a mask.
Jill Jaracz: Yeah, I don’t, I don’t get it. One thing that Tokyo 2020 is reconsidering, [00:56:00] according to the Humira Shinbo is the number of athletes allowed to attend the opening and closing ceremonies. So about 11,000 athletes will be there, but they’re thinking right now that maybe just 6,000 or so can attend, which is just over half, but they’re, they’re really concerned about the athletes crowding waiting for hours because we’ve talked to Marni McBean and how she’s had to wait for hours waiting to line up for the ceremonies.[00:56:30]
And then once they’re on the field, they’re all kind of crowded together as well. So it’s not the greatest situation. Uh, oh, apparently before the decision to shorten everybody stay in the village, IOC was not happy about that idea and about the idea really about the idea of. Cutting the number of people in the opening ceremonies because of the PO and circumstance and how it looks on TV and that’s where they get their money.
Alison Brown: And that’s such a cornerstone of the Olympics that you [00:57:00] have all these athletes in all these sports from all around the world.
Jill Jaracz: So I can
Alison Brown: totally surprised they even
Jill Jaracz: go ahead.
Alison Brown: Can I have 6,000 athletes in the village for opening opening day? Like it’s a baseball season because I would think if you’re shortening the stays like none, none of the track and fields people would be there.
Jill Jaracz: Right.
Alison Brown: Cuz that’s all second week.
Jill Jaracz: Mm-hmm
Alison Brown: I mean, I guess all the team sports would be there cuz they play throughout.
Jill Jaracz: Right. That’s true. But you do have a huge [00:57:30] swath of sports that don’t go on until the second week. So they wouldn’t be allowed to even be there.
Alison Brown: Right. So I’m kind of surprised that it would even be 6,000 and to be honest, that they would even consider 6,000.
Jill Jaracz: Right. And even with, uh, you look at team sports like football and baseball, they might not go because they’re scattered around the country.
Theme Music: Right.
Jill Jaracz: So
Theme Music: they’re, they’re in
Jill Jaracz: their probably baseball bubble. Exactly. So,
Alison Brown: and you know who else won’t be [00:58:00] there?
Jill Jaracz: Who
Alison Brown: marathoners?
Jill Jaracz: poor marathoners up in Sapporo and they’re
Alison Brown: yeah, nobody’s talking about putting them back on the plane to be there for the closing ceremonies anymore.
Jill Jaracz: And that’s really about it for news from Tokyo 2020, everybody’s been very quiet this week kind of nice, which
Alison Brown: is good. Cuz there’s only so much I can handle right now.
Jill Jaracz: right.
Alison Brown: It’s a rough week in the us,
Jill Jaracz: so [00:58:30] that’s right. But oh man, hopefully things will get better. But that will do it for this week’s show a, let us know what you thought of. Nest me,
Alison Brown: email us@flamealivepodgmail.com or call our voicemail hotline at two zero eight. Flame it we’re flame alive pod on Twitter and Insta and keep the flame alive podcast group on Facebook.
Jill Jaracz: Next week, book club, Claire will be back to talk about world class by Peggy shin. So please let us know your thoughts on that book. As we go out to music by [00:59:00] arch. Thank you so much for listening and until next time, keep the flame alive.
Theme Music: What’s inside.[00:59:30] [01:00:00]
Ness Murby: I cannot emphasize how much core worker goes into this.