May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and this month, we’re exploring aspects of mental health as it pertains to sports. We’re kicking it off with our interview with Olympic figure skater Gracie Gold. Gracie won a bronze medal in the team event at the Sochi 2014 Olympics.Gracie is an advocate for good mental health, having spent time in a treatment facility to help her cope with an eating disorder and depression. In 2024 she released a very candid memoir titled Outofshapeworthlessloser: A Memoir of Figure Skating, F*cking Up, and Figuring It Out (affiliate link) that delves into Gracie’s highs and lows as an elite figure skater.
Trigger warning: We talk with Gracie about eating disorders, body dysmorphia, and suicidal ideation in this interview.
Learn more about Gracie at her website and follow her on Insta and X.
Also on this episode: It’s a quiet news week in the Olympic and Paralympic world, but we have news from Milan-Cortina 2026 and LA 2028, plus updates from Team Keep the Flame Alive members Olivia Chambers, Elizabeth Marks, Daniel Romanchuk, Jimmer Fredette, and Kenny Bednarek.
If you heard what’s going on with our TeePublic store and want to get a Keep the Flame Alive shirt or sticker while the store is still available, go here.
Thank so much for listening, and until next time, keep the flame alive!
Photo courtesy of Gracie Gold/Firework Sports Marketing
TRANSCRIPT
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389-Olympic Figure Skater Gracie Gold
Theme Music
Jill Jaracz: Hello and welcome to another episode of Keith, the Flame Alive, the podcast for fans of the Olympics and Paralympics. If you love the Games, we are the show for you. I’m your host, Jill Jaracz, joined as always by my lovely co-host, Alison Brown.
Alison, hello, how are you? I’ve realized I have not prepared any Italian.
Alison Brown: For our intro later. Oh, no. So, oh [00:01:00] wait, do
Jill Jaracz: we even have news? Malam Cortina has been quiet.
Alison Brown: Well, we have, we have one little piece of news.
Jill Jaracz: Oh, okay. Oh, but
Alison Brown: though, but I know, I, I gotta, I gotta think about this for a minute.
Jill Jaracz: So, good thing we’ve got an interview.
Yeah. Right. And while you think about that, let me, uh. Remind people that we do have, uh, clothing in our store for the time being. And, uh, it’s been a fun week dealing with intellectual property claims from the US Olympic and Paralympic committee against our logo t-shirts. but, while our store is still alive and active.
It might be a good time for you to buy something if you were on the fence about buying some podcast merch. We have a store at Tea Public. It is Keep the Flame Alive. We will have a link to that in the show notes. We have, all kinds of designs about, uh, our show and sh Stan, and we’re getting some Milan Cortina stuff up.
You might wanna check it out as we get closer to Milan. Cortina will have other designs there available. [00:02:00] Also, you can become, uh, an official vacuumer of the show or get your magical hour vacuuming shirt. My favorite design. I know, I love it. It’s so cool. but that is, uh, t public.com. We have a link at the bottom of our website.
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Alison Brown: with a logo that the U-S-O-P-C said was okay.
Jill Jaracz: Yeah. Right, right, right. And don’t be swayed by other items at the T public site that say Olympics. Just saying t public.com
Gracie Gold Interview
Jill Jaracz: Anyway, May is Mental Health Awareness Month and you know, we’re going into Mental health awareness month with,
Alison Brown: with ver, with a lot of awareness about our own mental health right now.
Jill Jaracz: Right. we are going to have a few shows based on that topic in terms of sports mental health Turk Center stage at Tokyo 2020 [00:03:00] when Simone Biles withdrew from the gymnastics competition Due to a case of the twisties that caused her to not be able to know where she was in the air, and subsequently caused a mental blockage in terms of being able to execute death defying moves.
Since then, the media has talked more about mental health and athletes, particularly as they experience more pressure on the field of play and more pressure on social media. This month we’re exploring aspects of mental health as it pertains to sports, and we’re kicking it off with our interview with figure skater Gracie Gold. Gracie won a bronze medal in the team event at Sochi 2014. She is an advocate for good mental health, having spent time in a treatment facility to help her cope with an eating disorder and depression.
Last year, she released a very candid memoir out of shape with this loser, a memoir of figure skating, effing up and figuring it out, which it’s an excellent read, I will say. And. I know we’ve been looking at memoirs for our Patreon patrons. This is a memoir of like, what not to do to get to the [00:04:00] Olympics.
Uh, very, very good book, trigger warning. We will talk with Gracie about eating disorders, body dysmorphia, and suicidal ideation. So please be prepared One little note about the interview, she talks about an amber. That is Amber Glenn, who is also a US figure skater. Take a listen to our conversation with Gracie.
Alison Brown: Gracie Gold, thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. I’m so excited to meet. Thanks for having me meet you. last night when I was telling my daughter that I was gonna get to talk to you, she’s grown now, um, and she doesn’t get too excited about my interviews.
This one she really, you really gonna talk to Crazy gold does that ever get old when you hear about the, the little girl when she was a little girl was such a big fan, Ann,
Gracie Gold: it never gets old. It just is always unbelievable. You know, I meet a lot of, I coach seminars and I meet a lot of kids that say, you know, I started skating because of you, and it just seems.
Not real to me, but no, it doesn’t, it doesn’t get old. Um, tell your [00:05:00] daughter I said hello.
Alison Brown: You just made her whole year.
Gracie Gold’s first season in Seniors figure skating
Alison Brown: So I wanna start when you move up to the seniors, you were 16 years old and is your first senior season,
Gracie Gold: uh, yeah, the 20 12, 20 13 season.
Alison Brown: Who’s making the decisions for you? who’s picking out your music? Who’s picking out your costumes, who’s controlling your schedule?
Gracie Gold: Well, so those are different questions. schedule versus costume versus, I was, as I wrote in the book, I guess, difficult child is not an unfair, statement at times, in some ways I always had the final say simply because I, I just wouldn’t do it. But there were a lot of things out of my control at that time.
And when it came to picking programs and picking music at that time, that was something that I felt okay, relinquishing some control on, just because I was better [00:06:00] with yes, no, I couldn’t just pick a piece of classical music and we didn’t have lyrics yet. That to me was, I didn’t even know where to start my confidence in that area.
Was, leave it to the professionals. And my costumes were a mix, I suppose my, I suppose my dress maker, Brad Griffeys, and my mom in some ways had the last say. That was something my coach at the time didn’t care about. And everything else was, you know, every aspect of my life was controlled in some way, but it kind of changed who it was controlled by.
So my coach at that time, he literally couldn’t care at all. I could have worn a paper bag and if it was going to yield my best skating, he truly didn’t care versus Frank Carroll, like very strong opinions on packaging and even what and like what I were to practice, right? Like very much being the parts and also [00:07:00] looking presentable.
I sometimes struggled with that because to me it was so not important. Of course. I see. Now in some ways it was a uniform, right? It’s like wearing pajamas to a corporate office. You know, you can have a conversation about dress code, but there is something to be said about a little bit of effort, right? And looking presentable, uh, taking care of yourself.
Uh, Frank was bigger on that. my schedule was set. I don’t really know who set it, which probably says a lot, but the fact that I had no idea what it was, and some of that is governed by the ice time that’s available. and what I did on each of those sessions also was not something I said, which is also why you have a coach.
But I do believe that, and as you get older, you’re supposed to work in tandem. Granted, giving a 16-year-old the reins, this I think was some of my problems that developed is at times where it would’ve been appropriate for, you know, like my parents or my coaches [00:08:00] or people around me to let me take the reins slowly over the years, that never really happens.
So, you know, 16, first year senior, what did I know? I don’t think I knew anything, but I thought I knew everything, which is often the problem in that age group. And you know, I had independent thought, but empathy was still developing, right? Tumultuous high school girls are, can be typically, I would say, big personalities.
Some people might call them something else, but to me it’s just. The critical thought without empathy is a big thing missing. but, uh, as I grew up and as I became more responsible and I knew what was going on in my life and what was expected, when it was time to relinquish that control, to me, it wasn’t really relinquished.
And that’s where some of the problems began.
Working with coach Frank Carroll
Alison Brown: You mentioned Frank Carroll, and I do want to talk about him because he was very influential in that image, which seemed to have both a positive and a negative effect on your life. how was that [00:09:00] working with him in terms of that, how you were going to look on the ice
Gracie Gold: I guess I’ll preface this with, a little bit like my, uh, coach before Frank and with the aggressive training regimen and Frank with the. kind of drive towards perfection and the whole package and everyone is looking at you all the time. I have a tendency just to take things too far, right?
I have that, I have a rather intense personality and, you know, there’s a lot of like addiction that runs in my family tree. And so I just have a tendency to go all the way. And at various points there was by the time somebody checked in and was like, oh, are you still, are you still doing that? You know, that was more of maybe, you know, you just don’t have, you don’t have to carry that energy all the time.
with Frank, I will say some of what he, I mean, a lot of his guidance was really beautiful, especially in that age range. Of I had turned 18 leading into the Olympics and I was competing, although the [00:10:00] Russians were, on their way in that like last decade of their dominance, I was competing against UN Kim and Malasada and Carolina Costner and my first Grand Prix.
I showed up and what I would consider like a typical training outfit, which was I had these black and neon yellow striped pants, like a neon yellow shirt, and I was going through a bow phase. So I had a, and not just a regular bow, I mean a big bow, so you could see it on my ponytail. It stuck out on either side.
So Frank was like, what are we doing? You know, you’re competing against women. You’re competing against world, world champions and Olympic champions, and this is. Frank, I don’t even know what, he didn’t even know what to make of it. He’s like, where’d you even get that bow? But I will never forget, he looked at me, it was Skate Canada, and he was like, that’s my most unfavorite color.
I was like, what? Oh, I was, I think I said like, I’m sorry. And [00:11:00] so I changed before the practice. The bow stayed in. ’cause I was like, oh, it’s black. I thought the color was the issue. That wasn’t the issue. But he just is kind of, you know, like, you look like a clown and we need to, if you wanna be ponying with Carolina Costner, we can’t, we can’t be doing whatever this is.
You know, you have everything but the clown shoes. However, I really started to kind of body, I kind of give a personality to what was more of the aesthetic of this Grace Kelly Ice Princess. And I almost took that on as this weird persona and I was, I. Just kind of reinvented myself and made a new me.
I didn’t do color, I just did black hair in the bun. If you know Grace Kelly wouldn’t do it. I wouldn’t do it. Which I didn’t know Grace Kelly, right? I’m just like making, now that I look back, I’m thinking it sounds insane, but at the time it was very real to me. But in a lot of ways I kind of lost myself in that process.
’cause at some point, if you live that every day for years and years, you in some ways [00:12:00] become that. But if it’s not authentically you, you kind of get lost. So my narrative was really, it was torn between this Russian and then Frank and everything in between.
The division between Gracie’s public and private personas
Alison Brown: But also you’re 18 years old and isn’t that so typical of 18-year-old girls trying to figure out who they are?
What kind of messages besides from Frank, are you getting at that point with judges, other coaches? I mean, skating can be a very insular world, telling you you have to be a certain way.
Gracie Gold: I was described as cold a lot of the time, and I kind of identified with Estella, I suppose, from great expectations at that time where they inadvertently, I felt like they had created this monster, but I was then cold to everyone and I, I got cold a lot and I really was, I was rather frigid.
And unapproachable was another one. I thought Ice Princess at first was [00:13:00] a good thing. ’cause I thought, you know, it was giving Elsa, it was not. It was giving like frozen Barbie completely un unrelatable like out of touch. But I thought, oh my God, they think only Elsa, like that’s on like cider well before Elsa, right?
I was Cinderella on the ice and they’re like, no, that’s not a good thing. I got dead fish a lot. Or skating gives dead fish, which I guess I wasn’t sure what to do with that one as much as the other ones. I thought, well, like I thought we’re almost good because I thought, oh, I’m doing it right because I was so lost.
I was so sold on this. And also because at that point what was even worse is that. Olympic year instead of seeing that it worked. Maybe for that I skied to sleeping beauty, especially that first opening was rather jarring version, but it worked. And so what it told me was that everything I was doing around the training was working as well.
And so if anything with my personality, I needed to [00:14:00] do more of it. That if I became more detached and more unapproachable and more frozen, it would continue to yield better results is what it told me in my 18 and 19-year-old brain frontal lobe. Not even close to developed, not even close.
Alison Brown: So there’s no division at that time between this public persona and your private view of self.
Gracie Gold: There wasn’t a division bet because I wanted to be her so badly, you know, I wanted to be. Because in that type A, the put together, because in fact I am, I’m not, I am kind of type B I’m more of a disaster. I really wanted to be the, uh, Gracie Gold that Frank Carroll thought I could be.
But it was so different than the Gracie Bowl that I really was certainly in my teenage years. And there was no, like, I wanted to be her. And again, the results on the ice were still [00:15:00] continuing to be good. And so I just kept trying harder. But yeah, I, I didn’t want a division, like there was no division because I so badly wanted to be.
My Olympic short program. There’s the picture of Grace Kelly pulling over the curtains and like the off the shoulder velvet dress, which is why I wore an off the shoulder velvet dress. And that picture just so perfect. Black and white is what I want it to be. And I’m just, I’m just not.
Jill Jaracz: Is that, maybe not Frank specifically, but do coaches tend to do that, especially with younger skaters, like put them into a mold and we’re going to do this program and this music and you’re going to wear this costume and there’s a lot put on you and as a kid you wanna please or do whatever it takes to get to reach your goals.
Does that make it difficult when they don’t necessarily see who you are?
Gracie Gold: I think it can, but I think for me it was a mixed situation [00:16:00] because there are some things where, um, you know, there are, based on the way that you move and how you skate, right? There’s certain piece of music that are going to be better suited for you and some that aren’t. And that’s not necessarily, you know, a personality flaw If, you know, maybe that’s not gonna be best for you.
Like, I don’t think anything sexy is typically not as good for me. But like hip hop is not something that’s as good for me, and that’s not, you know, I know that is not a personality flaw. And that’s also separate from, you know, the kind of Gracie Gold thing. ‘ cause she would never skates to hip hop. I don’t move well to it.
You know what I mean? Right. Same with, there’s certain colors that someone looks better in. So you might be put in those for various costumes throughout a lot of your career, but that’s also just based on your coloring or certain enhancements. Right. Like in a stone, like not being a natural redhead
Jill Jaracz: mm-hmm.
Gracie Gold: Haunts me to this day because I’m like, oh, that’s, and you could say, oh, the industry’s like [00:17:00] caused her to, she had to find her niches or whatever. But also I think that it looks stunning on her. I tried going back brunette right as I wrote in the book. It’s not great for me. It just really isn’t. And not a single person, literally not a single person has seen a photo of me with brown hair and thought, ugh.
Such a good look, right? Even if yellow is my favorite color, it’s not a great color for me on the ice. So even that’s one where, um, and I ended up wearing blue for my Olympic long program, but the first rough draft of the dress was white. And then Frank saw it and was like, oh no, you know, on white ice, everything.
Like, it’s just, he’s like, we’re really just gonna see eyebrows. And I was like, yeah. ’cause that’s, that’s not a, you know what I mean? It’s um, uh, so there is a fine line though. And I think, I think Alyssa Liu does like a really beautiful job of really being [00:18:00] authentically herself. I know that they’re certainly in the judging and officials world.
They’re not a big fan of her smiley piercing, but also that’s who she is and that’s what she wants. That’s her thing. Right? I think she does a great job of really being authentically herself while still doing things that are for the sport. ’cause it is a traditional sport, but sometimes in the sport of figure skating, we are lost in time.
But the word traditional can be very dicey. Right? Traditional meaning, we have a lot of history and there’s heritage here, but also traditional can mean truly lost in time and delusional, like, which tradition are we referring to? but I, I know it’s, it’s interesting if the coaches put it on versus it’s, it’s in the coach’s best interest for you to do well.
So at the end of the day, I think that most coaches are out, are looking out for you. It’s in their best interest across the board, especially at the national world Olympic level, for you to be your best self.
Gracie Gold’s thoughts on skating to music you may not enjoy
Jill Jaracz: It’s interesting and well, ‘ because we have a little thing [00:19:00] we’ve noticed of music enjoyment factor, and this is this, we see more in the guise, but you can tell when somebody really doesn’t like their music on the ice if you don’t like your music and you’re stuck with it, what is that like going through practice all the time, having to spend hours with something that may not be for you?
Gracie Gold: It’s a tough scene. I mean, lemme tell you that between my Olympic and Firebird year, although I had a very successful season, my long program was Phantom of the Opera. well I can’t even remember the title right now. oh. Wishing you were somehow here again and. Like lyrics were allowed. Like we just, we tried something different and it didn’t land.
And the, not just fear, but it’s also expensive to get a new program. Like, the time that it takes and if, and it also depends on when you realize that you don’t like it or it’s not suiting you if it’s already the fall. Are we gonna try to get a program before nationals? Are we gonna compete a [00:20:00] long program for the first time at the US Championships?
That’s not always great, right? Then we have to gamble, like, are we going to find something? Is it better to have music that you love but not be as well trained or to just keep working the program to make it the best that it can be? But that one was, Lori and I tried something different and it just didn’t land for me.
The hardest part about that was in training. I. It’s hard to train a program that you don’t like. And so we ended up reworking it several times. So at least that the patterns and you know, the choreography in it was, you know, I could enjoy that, to the maximum capacity, even if I didn’t like what was playing as much as I had other programs.
But that was the one that stood out of that feeling that you’re talking about of this just isn’t hitting. And a lot of it, I think comes from we try something new and it doesn’t work. Right. We’ve all seen from any [00:21:00] type, from anything in the world. Sometimes we try new things and they just don’t land and that’s okay.
This is just, it’s tough though on like, a makeup look or. I mean, it’s like a, it’s like a haircut, right? You have to wait for that to grow out, right? Sometimes we, we’ve all tried bangs a couple of times, and every time we have to just grow them back out. And that’s my equivalent is like getting bangs.
Like you really just, you can do some things with it, but you just have a season. You just have a bang season.
Jill Jaracz: We understand that.
Gracie Gold’s Olympic year
Alison Brown: Well, the 2014 program obviously is probably your most famous one in where we see all the pictures and was the Olympics, and at the same time, you’re winning a national title, you’re getting signed to covergirl, you’re getting signed to Nike, and all of this attention is coming on you and what’s happening in Gracie Gold’s head as you’re heading to the Olympics kind of as a rockstar.
Gracie Gold: So heading into the Olympics was not nearly as stressful as heading into that US championships [00:22:00] because. They actually sign you before. So you’ve actually signed a lot of deals or endorsements prior to qualifiers. And so you actually have to qualify though. And for other sports, it depends on the sport, how early you qualify.
Some people know they can know two years. I mean, I think we all knew, like we all knew like Phelps was going like, you know what I mean? but I mean, Olympic trials in some sports are really close to the games in both summer and winter, but skating is by far the closest. So I think I was home like a week and change, and then I went to processing in Munich and then to Olympics, right?
And then it was opening ceremony, team event. It was just that quick. there’s a lot going on. Heading into that championships as opposed to the Olympics felt much more relaxed to me in comparison. It’s not, it wasn’t maybe just an average day, but [00:23:00] to me then it was all good from there. In some ways, it was the actually making it yes, as the cover girl, and it was like new people and on the United commercial that everyone is watching on all the planes all the time.
So then to not make that would’ve been, that’s what I was really stress. That was like the big stressor.
Alison Brown: How aware were you of the press at that point? Were you hearing it as much as. You can, I mean obviously now there’s so much more social media, but at that time, were you getting the messages of, you know, some of the things you talk about in the book of what people thought of you?
Gracie Gold: Some? Not as much. Not as much as I could have it though. What, I wasn’t like searching my name on back then it was called Twitter. I wasn’t searching my name anymore because that was a recipe for disaster. Just in [00:24:00] general. I wasn’t actively looking at articles. So there’s an article anywhere that came out about me.
I did not intentionally read it. But you still, the skating world is so small, right? That you still hear and know and are aware and some stuff just came up on my feed regardless. A lot of people would just at me. In the tweet, which tweet like I get, because they probably thought, oh my God, why would she never see this?
Right? One in like thousands. But on occasion, if I did open to check notifications, I would see. But yeah, in the skating world, everyone knows. Everyone knows what’s going on.
Alison Brown: You were with Nike. Nike doesn’t have a great reputation when it comes to, being kind to women athletes. So did you have a whole lot of contact with the Nike people and what was that?
Gracie Gold: So my relationship with Nike was uncommon in the way that I had a very pleasant and positive experience, although I [00:25:00] did view it as, that was one of those relationships that I was able to, I don’t wanna say separate, but to me a lot of the endorsements were a business deal. And that they were, they relied entirely on my results and that I never thought, you know, they would be there for me in times of trouble.
Right. this was a business arrangement, but Lori Roth was my contact person and I had a very positive relationship. I am not sure why or why that was uncommon. I don’t know if it was, I wonder in some ways if it was unique because my teammate and I were like the first, I believe the like first or certainly prominent figure skaters by Nike.
And if there was maybe a sense of newness to it or I, you know, the way they treat women athletes, is it because our sport is inherently probably like the most feminine? Was there something tied in there? Or was it also just the newness, right? You never had ice skaters like, look [00:26:00] at the, the ice skaters.
Like, ha ha. but I had a really positive, but I’m aware that it’s unusual, right? Like I’ve never, I’ve heard all of the not very good stories, but mine was, I had a delight working with them.
Gracie’s downward spiral and figure skating’s fat phobia
Alison Brown: 2016, you win the national championships again,
everything’s great. And then it seems like world championships is the point where things sort of start to really spiral for you. I wanna start there and kind of go through the next couple years of what was going on. So 2016 World Championships, I don’t wanna say what happened ’cause that’s so simplistic, but was it just not your best competition or was there something more to it?
Gracie Gold: I guess both. It was important to me and in the grand scheme of everything, it was maybe not, I know a lot of people, you know, it’s just you were fourth, not what’s the big, but yeah, like what’s the big deal And that there is, you know, [00:27:00] another Olympics, there’s more world championships, like you’ve been fourth before.
But I just, to me that was ex, it was an extremely important event to me as a person and a skater. And the result there essentially caused really everything to crumble. But also at that point, the foundation of my life was like toothpicks. So it wasn’t really going to take much. And I think it really showed just the lack of
support, I guess. Uh, and understanding and empathy, I guess from a lot of people is like what I was feeling and it pushed me further and further away and I just couldn’t, I mean, it just sent me spiraling. And I think that there wasn’t a lot of effort to help stop my spiral at first because to [00:28:00] nobody else was at that big of a deal and that they kind of thought like, I might just rebound because it wasn’t the first event that I didn’t do well at.
Like I’ve tanked a mini events. I made a whole career off of taking short programs and coming back in the long program. This is not uncommon. Right. So I think that there was, and I see the expectation of like, kind of spiral a little bit and like come back. But the spiral just kept going. And then I think by the time people realized that I wasn’t, I wasn’t just gonna come back.
Like, to be fair, every other time, I was already just too far.
Alison Brown: I’m already concerned that the spiral was a typical thing and nobody stopped it. Earl, you know, that you would spiral and then bounce back. that that was a pattern that nobody was addressing.
Gracie Gold: Well, so it’s a two part, ’cause one I do have a flare for the dramatic, like I am well aware of this, right? And difficulty and like big feelings, whatever [00:29:00] you wanna call them. But also in society, right? Like women are dramatic and women have episodes. And for people that have big feelings and meltdowns, there at some point becomes like a lack of understanding.
Unless you’re dealing with somebody who also has ’em or kind of sees, you know, is this one of those where, they just have to go, they’re feeling their feelings in a very extroverted way, or is this something different? Or is this like a true spiral, that will continue downwards and there’s like not a trampoline at the bottom.
Because sometimes I would have a big meltdown and then we would just come back, which is still, yes. Is that great? No, but I mean, I don’t know. I don’t know what other, what other people do you know when you take a short program at the National Championships, like again and again and again?
You know, by the third time, I don’t know how, like, I don’t know where I was supposed to put my feelings, where people wanted them in a way that would make them feel more [00:30:00] comfortable. But that’s where I put them, was out in the worlds and they exploded. But this one was the, and just the various changes of behavior that I began exhibiting of, like not showing up to practice, was a bit of a red flag.
Or I would’ve thought it was, I trained psychotically, like manically. And so then to just not show up and it was like, Ugh. Well there’s lazy Gracie. I don’t that like never, that still doesn’t sit right with me. I just don’t understand. When I exhibited this, like laziness that people refer to all the time with me when it came to my training, certainly post like a Firebird year.
I just don’t know where, but to just not show up. And then when it was at its worst in Detroit, I am, you know, I’m sleeping until like 1:00 PM that’s not lazy. That’s like, I mean there’s something clinically wrong and the, I think that disconnect was difficult for me ’cause I realized it just kept pushing me further.
[00:31:00] Right? Because if you are exhibiting these signs and someone’s like. Lazy. Well, now I’m even further gone. ’cause you don’t even, you’re not even close to getting what’s going on.
Alison Brown: Let’s talk about how bad it got, because some things in the book were, you didn’t turn on the lights, you didn’t eat for days on end.
You didn’t go out, no one saw you. You tell it better than, than than me saying it
Gracie Gold: also. Oh no. So at that time I was eating
Alison Brown: okay.
Gracie Gold: That was my comfort. I was eating all the time. I was either sleeping or I was eating because then that really showed, um, general society is fat phobic. Right. The, I mean, the medical field is extremely fat phobic and the figure skating world, shocker. Also fat phobic and people get uncomfortable. You know, when you say the F word, the F word being fats, people get very cagey and very uncomfortable about it in skating. Especially because sometimes I will say like, [00:32:00] oh yeah, well I was, I was fat at that time.
And I understand that BMI index likes not, but I do consider my eating disorder aside. Like at that time I put on 60 pounds. I mean, that’s not light work, you know? And at five, six, that’s, that’s a, I mean, I don’t know what word. ‘ cause then people in skating like to go, no, you just weren’t in shape. And it’s just the dumbest stuff.
Like I can’t, I don’t get it. ’cause at that time, I, I just, I still don’t know the word. I’m like, I’ve asked people, I’m like, is chubby better? I don’t know what, and then at that point, when I was showed up to events large, then it just was like, oh, she doesn’t have it anymore. Like, she’s retired. Then people were like, the most disenchanted they’ve ever been with Gracie Gold, uh, when I was larger.
And the treatment that you receive based on your size and skating [00:33:00] is profound. And people in the sport like to pretend that it’s, it’s something else. Like, it’s different. It’s not, just, the, I mean the treatment you receive in society is different and the treatment that you receive in the skating world.
Is incredibly different. I’m assuming it’s the same for men. I obviously don’t feel comfortable speaking for that, but I have to assume that it’s the same for men in skating as it is for men in society. And so I was, that was really kind of the tip of the iceberg for a lot of people. I really feel like between the overindulgence.
So like a lot of people say you were just overindulging ‘ cause we just can’t, say any of these like bad words. when I was like put on 60 pounds and I was sleeping until one, I’m still not a big mirror person. Or I’m more than happy if I could shower with just candles. I would probably prefer that.
I don’t like an overhead light. I really don’t. It just, And then I just, at some point though, I, I still cared a little bit though in some [00:34:00] ways. ’cause when I covered slash removed the one was built in so I had to cover it all the mirrors in my apartment. That was in some ways, I guess like an act of self-soothing or self-preservation. But yeah, that was, we weren’t doing well.
But to a lot of people, that’s where then it leads into my Champs camp story, where some of the powers that be were like, you know, if you lose 30 pounds, you can have your Grand Prix back. And I was like, well first off, I actually don’t know if you can take them from me ‘ cause they’re not assigned by you.
And also that’s what you took from all this was that I should lose weight. That’s, that’s, again, that’s the, fix for everything.
Jill Jaracz: is the figure skating world still like that in a way? Because if you look at gymnastics, everyone was stick thin and now you see a lot more strength and a lot more power.
And in some of the skaters now and maybe it’s an age thing because it looks like we’re getting older, skaters still competing at nationals, and it’s a different [00:35:00] body type than a child’s body. Are we starting to see more acceptance of different body types in skating?
Gracie Gold: In my honest opinion, I believe that the acceptance just comes from results and also because it’s becoming increasingly.
Just unacceptable to common, especially when there’s just no reason to. But I, just speaking to people and, and people close to, you know, the world champion and World Silver medalists, um, people still will refer to them as big. I mean, people I’ve, I’ve heard, and they’re like nowhere because I, someone said this to me at the World Championships and it was a fan of skating, but I still was like, not sure what the compliment was too, but they’re like, oh, wow, like, read your book.
Loved it. and then just talking about like the sport changing and like, you know, progressive. ’cause you could like write a book and I was like, oh, I feel like maybe you always could, I don’t know. Um, and so, yeah, now seeing, you know, like. [00:36:00] bigger women, like really succeed. And I was like, actually, see that ma’am is why I still feel like the sport hasn’t changed in a lot and it’s, some of the calls come from inside, but actually a lot of the calls come from outside.
Like there’s still uh, within the officials and within the fans, with people that view skating as traditional, you know, and they’ll often use the word classy. They’re like, well skating’s, you know, it’s, it’s a classy sport, that implies a lot of things to me that are, you know, as just, certainly as an American, when we start describing institutions as classy and traditional.
I am getting really nervous because I don’t think historically, that’s not good. That’s, that’s not good. And I, I think that as it keeps changing, people will be forced to adapt, but I also think that time will help. That’s what I’ve always [00:37:00] said. I think like time will help push things forward. And as Gen Z continues to age whether or not people like it, there will be a new age of society and there will be a new age of skating where certain things say what you want about Gen Z, but there’s certain things that are not going to be tolerated.
And I’d like to see skating be less traditional and like less classy.
Jill Jaracz: Agree. I love a good, strong thigh. I love that people look like they’re fueling them, you know? They look like they’re fueling themselves properly. And that’s what I like seeing on the ice, if that makes sense. They look like every other athlete.
Yeah. Yeah. And it is what they look like. It’s, you see people that look healthy and they, they look happy, they look happier,
Gracie Gold: with the exception of like marathon runners perhaps. I mean, but I mean, I’m thinking that’s not, and skating is, it’s, it’s both like an endurance and a power sport. And so it does, I believe it’s [00:38:00] classified as an endurance sport.
But in my opinion, it should maybe be classified with the power sports. That’s how they would determine, just like if you were to divide sports between one and two ways. And that’s kind of, are we going for more like sprinter versus marathon runner? Um, like bobsledding, iss like a power sport, right?
There’s a real, there’s a much shorter burst of insane power, like shot put power sport. skating for me though, should be, it like, feels like a mix. And gymnastics, I believe is classified as a power sport. And to me what that means is like stronger and more muscular. And, you know, endurance sports have, sometimes people say they have a different look to them, and I’m like, mm-hmm.
and just the way that we dance around those words sometimes is I just don’t get it. Because instead of saying, fat, what people say is, um, big, just like a little bit big, a little bit bigger. And I just, I don’t know, as a, former, like big skater, I don’t feel like that makes me feel [00:39:00] better.
I don’t feel more respected when someone says, you know, you weren’t fat. You were just like, much bigger.
Jill Jaracz: yeah. What is big mean?
Gracie Gold: Yeah. Like I just, and if anything, it just is more people being weird about it. but that’s to me, like the biggest, check-in.
And it literally just happened at Worlds with, calorie and Alyssa. I was like, oh no, we’re still here. Okay.
Jill Jaracz: Okay.
Gracie Gold: Just so I’m like, so we’re moving forward and then in some ways we are still, we’re like right back here.
Are the Russians missed?
Alison Brown: I feel like this is the perfect time to ask you about the Russian women. Because you’ve said some fabulous things about your concerns about what’s happening with the Russian women skaters that I love.
So in terms of, I had a run in with Eteri at the World Championships that I shared on the show. So I love to hear this stuff, so please just tell me your concerns and what you see happening from an insider point of view.
Gracie Gold: So I, I spoke about this [00:40:00] relatively recently in an article involving Amber, right where I, I told people to touch grass, was received mixed reviews. but you know, Amber being old and, like world medalists being big, you know, like quote on for the sports, I just am thinking of the longevity of the sport of figure skating and comparing it.
I know that gymnastics, that’s another one. They say, well, gymnastics. Well gymnastics, okay, then it then this applies to figure skating and gymnastics. But like all other sports, you know, I just felt with the Russian women specifically, I think we, and I will speak to them as women, like specifically the regression that I saw and that I’ll see these in the comments of skating tiktoks of people that I don’t know.
I have a anonymous TikTok and so sometimes skating stuff comes up, but I watched one the other day of like hot takes or you know, leave like your hottest takes about like the Russians and finger skating. And I read the comments because I was like, I wanna see what do skating fans [00:41:00] actually think that they wouldn’t tell, probably wouldn’t tell me.
Or like they wouldn’t just. You know, this is true, like anonymous. And, a lot of the, a lot of them acknowledge the push of skating back towards artistry and that it was kind of, the sport in some ways was just so uninteresting. And that it was kind of like if you were to watch track, but there were like four or five Usain bolts, you’re like, no, that’s so great.
And then there’s like everybody else alone. You’re just, you know, there’s this disconnect. and also about just the size and shape and the age, like a lot of people felt, you know, if I didn’t have my triple axle by 14, like what was I doing here? You know, this, the sport of skating can already be very exclusive from, certainly from a financial standpoint.
as we just talked about, like anesthetic standpoints, um, an ability standpoint, an age standpoint, um, a gender standpoint. You know, there’s, as a traditional and classy sport, there are some exclusions with that. And so just adding in, just extra, right? If you have to peak at a sport, [00:42:00] if you, if you’re commuting a sport where at your best, you know, you’re like between 14 and 17, it’s a tall order and I just compared it to the BA, I just compared it to, you know, all these other sports that are much more popular.
If they were full of 14 and 17-year-old boys, like, I just don’t think they’d be as popular. I just don’t think they would. and I know that they wouldn’t, right. We wouldn’t have, I don’t think you can have training cards of 15 year olds. I don’t think you can have tops cards. I don’t think you can have memorabilia of. Like child athletes.
Like it’s very strange to me that there was this push towards that and you saw it in the, you saw it in what people wore to train in, right. With the tights and the shorts and the leg warmer. I mean, there’s just this shift within the culture and I was like, oh, this is going to kill us.
Jill Jaracz: how has not having them on the world scene been for the sport, especially when they’ve got like a little history of doin going on?
Gracie Gold: Well, I wouldn’t say it’s a little history. Well, yeah,
Jill Jaracz: very true. Hey, as [00:43:00] long as Soviet Union has existed, I’m sure.
Gracie Gold: Yeah. I mean, and it was, I mean, criminal to their own athletes and it was, that no other country was able to.
Replicate, you know, over it’s like 10 to 12 year like dominance. Right. the US is kind of unique that we don’t get like, government funding for our Olympics. But there are other countries that do, and there are other countries that, I mean, you can even make a case about the US but, um, that sometimes disregard human rights for the sake of certain things.
And the fact that some of those countries were like unable to reproduce, like what was going on. I mean, just, it was insane. And I just believe that it’s so negatively impacted the sport. And I haven’t heard anybody complain
is my thing on it is I haven’t heard. A big to do like about it. And that to me is said at this world championships, I didn’t feel like a big absence.
And I say that [00:44:00] trying to be objective, like I understand that the US like performed exceptionally well and so did the Japanese. But I found myself googling certain skaters from other countries that maybe in my years I just like lost track of. But I was looking for, oh, like where’s this country’s representation?
Um, you know, I looked out like when China has stopped being part of the team event, and, you know, I was looking at like where China was like, I wasn’t, it didn’t even, I didn’t even think of the Russians we’re being honest. Um, I was looking at like maybe where other countries were and where some of those skaters were and.
What was going on there? I don’t,
to me that just wasn’t felt and I haven’t heard anybody complain.
Jill Jaracz: It’s interesting and telling, to be quite honest.
Gracie Gold’s relationship with figure skating in 2025
Alison Brown: What’s your relationship like with skating now? You’re back skating, you’re back, obviously you were at the, the World Championships. How does it feel to skate? Where’s your head at with the skating world?
Gracie Gold: So I only skate on occasion, but I was at the World Championships, on the other side I was in the media room. Very interesting [00:45:00] experience. no, it’s in a much more like I would, I guess I would say normal place, comparatively to some.
I did the holiday tour with Stars and Ice, so I did a little bit of skating here and there, but it’s been, I would say it’s pretty normal, which like means good for me. But I think the struggle is trying to just be normal about it. But like people either have a really good or really bad, or like really into it, or they can’t even think about skating.
So I just try to have like a normal relationship with it.
Alison Brown: One of the things that I always hate, and I know we only have a couple minutes left, is when people have mental health struggles and it’s presented to the media, it always ends. It always is just, oh, and then I was fine. And I love that you’re still talking about the stuff that’s, that’s not still fine.
So I, I wanted to throw that out. I love that. No. Yeah. You still mentioned not still, not still normal is okay.
Gracie Gold: Yeah, and I [00:46:00] think, and I, but I know what you mean. Um, I’m sure that there are, I think there is some people, especially depending on what their, I don’t wanna say issue, like their trauma or their issue or their like acronym is, not everyone, sometimes talking about it can be harmful, like, especially if you’re a ruminator.
But I believe that lives more in like the OCD world in particular. Um, the audience can absolutely correct me if I’m wrong. but outside of that, yeah, there is a, oh, they had this, a little hall thing. Yeah. And then it’s like, okay, man. Anyway, so now they’re doing this and a lot of mental health doesn’t really work like that.
a lot of physical diagnoses don’t really work like that. Um, I kind of compare it to mental health can kind of be like an autoimmune thing where it just is in some ways luck of the draw, right? Some people will have, if they just don’t eat dairy, it’s like all gone. But, you know, some people’s is chronic and debilitating.
It’s every single day [00:47:00] some just seem to come and go. Some people just had a little dabble and it’s literally gone. or it’s controlled. I know certain autoimmune, like a nicotine patch is actually kinda a newer thing can be like really helpful to the point where some people are like, oh, I’m actually cured.
Right. Um, but other people though, it’s. It’s an all day, every day thing where it’s a multiple times a week thing. It’s like I can’t do these activities anymore because of it. I try to frame it sometimes mental health with physical health, because I mean, to most people, I guess autoimmune, things aren’t real either.
So still working on a comparison, but I, yeah, they don’t just go away. And for me, I’m not sure if my relationship with food or body image will ever be totally normal. I think it’s unlikely. Those probably my, most of all of them, like damaging trauma, but I, yeah, they don’t just like disappear. It’s, or if they do, I mean, then you should feel free to then [00:48:00] talk about that though, because that’s some, like, lovely inspiration.
How did you do it? How does that feel for you? Did they all go away or just one like, I think it’s the same with cancer. Like you’ve had a cancer scare even once. I think that even in the back of your mind, it’s always there. I have to imagine, maybe I’m just a hypochondriac, but for me, I wouldn’t like literally never recover.
And it’s something that would just some days be more prevalent, but other days, but there would always be, you know, like, will this come back? Will it come back at the intensity? Will it come back the same? And to me that was more kind of like my depression, like a slow growing kind of cancer in a way. And so, although it’s in remission, like just always, I’m just kind of like looking over my shoulder for it.
Just to make sure.
Gracie’s experience with Safe Sport
Alison Brown: we’re not gonna get into the details. You had a SafeSport issue. SafeSport was not great for you in terms of how they handled it. Do you see them doing any better now?
Gracie Gold: Possibly. in some ways they handled it so poorly, but I also believe that, [00:49:00] looking back, might have done differently, but also as the, victim was at my job. Like I don’t, perhaps they oversold how much weight they would pull versus how much work, I would be doing.
I also think though that the design of the system could just be redone in a way. ’cause in some ways because of their limitations that it is. Within sport and like when you read like the rules, like in some ways they’re almost trapped the way that they, I guess, wrote their own rules. They like trap themselves in a box.
And I have to believe on some level, like not every employee there, I believe that some actually do wanna help and find that to be frustrating and that it was, I think just a, something that was thrown together post Larry Nassar. And they didn’t realize that it would need just how poor the, like structural, the lack of structural integrity in this whole system was.
And like the design [00:50:00] of it is so flawed that could they have done better? Yes. But ultimately I think that they were set up to fail anyway. Like they just made a bad system who, like the people that originally made it and it was constantly changing hands and like constantly changing. Like the stuff, you know, every single year or every two years when we renew it, there’s subtle changes, but then some are the same.
And it’s like the website’s different every, I mean, we can’t have the same, I’m like, why did I have to do that last year? They were not helpful at all. But I don’t know if the system was designed to be helpful. I think that the people that originally designed it designed it in a post Larry Nassar world and did not expect, I don’t know what reality they lived in, but I think that they lived in a world where there was only one Larry Nassar.
They just put this together for legal reasons. They’re like, okay, here you go. And then they got, I don’t know, like a million calls and it spiraled [00:51:00] downhill. It was a downward spiral very quickly. Do you know what I mean? I, it was a failure on a mini parts.
Alison Brown: They didn’t know it was everywhere.
Gracie Gold: Yeah. And quite frankly, I actually don’t know what they’re capable, like the capability of what they can help with, I think is too limited perhaps to what they’re a, like what they advertise or what we all hope.
And again, I just think that whoever designed the system designed it more as like a, uh, to escape liability and to just be like, oh, see guys, like we have ours. So like, this wouldn’t happen to us. And it wasn’t actually designed, this was like a Hollywood set. Kinda what it reminds me of. And so could that have been a better set? Yes. But at the end of the day, I don’t think it was designed to be much more than that.
Alison Brown: Well, Gracie Gold, thank you for that. And thank you for spending so much time with us. We appreciate it. Yeah, no thank you guys.
Find out more about Gracie Gold
Jill Jaracz: Thank you so much Gracie. You can find more about Gracie at Gracie Gold figure skaters online.com. On Insta. She is at Gracie Gold 95 and on X she is Gracie [00:52:00] E Gold
Alison Brown: and she mentioned, we talked very little about the SafeSport case that she had.
Mostly because I didn’t want to talk about it. but she had accused a, a, a fellow figure skater of a sexual assault and the case took eight years to get a resolution. I’m gonna write about the case in our newsletter. So if you wanna take a look and, and read the whole story, I’m gonna put that in, next week’s newsletter and you can sign up for that at our website.
Flame Alive. Wait. I forgot our news. Flame alive pod.com.
Milan-Cortina 2026 News
Alison Brown: Whoa.
Jill Jaracz: See, that means the online store is open.
Alison Brown: No, it means the online store is big. Well, it just means the store that this store is big. I’m trying. I’m trying. So yet again,
Jill Jaracz: no, it’s me not knowing [00:53:00] any Italian
Alison Brown: really. I am trying so hard so that the Italians will accept me as their own, and I am failing so miserably.
I don’t even know how to ask them to love me.
Jill Jaracz: Oh, well, you know, maybe you can buy some of their merch and they will love you then. Well, it’s, it’s Milo and Tina. Which are
Alison Brown: adorable.
Jill Jaracz: I will say that. So, uh, the online shop is open for Milan Cortina. They’ve got mainly clothes, mainly t-shirts and sweatshirts. They do not yet have that sweet, sweet jacket that I’ve been eyeing, uh, that we talked about the other week.
but they do have, t-shirts with, Milo and uh. Tina. Tina, thank you. I just had a brain fart there. Um, and they are adorable and they’ve got some torch related designs that had the little swooshy, infographic type logos on them. So stuff is starting to look really good. We have not [00:54:00] yet heard, but like where the mega store is gonna be.
It could be in 17 different places. Oh, that’s very true. I wonder if they will have
Alison Brown: multiple mega stores. I’m sure they will. I mean, you know, the mega, mega store. Will be in Milan, but then they’ll have subsequent large stores. Right. Hanging off the side of a mountain in Lavino.
Jill Jaracz: Well, you will be hanging there with them. Oh,
Alison Brown: Maybe my odd job driver from Beijing will be back to drive me in the mountains.
LA 2028 News
Jill Jaracz: If you, oh, we’ve got some news from LA 2028. Did you have a, a thing to say about LA 22? No, I have no little LA catchphrase. Okay. LA 2028 News. If you are planning to attend the games, and I know there are three. Plus years away still. But if you’re planning to attend, be aware that you will not be able to park at venues. You’ll have to take [00:55:00] transit, walk, bike, or be dropped off. That is according to la Metropolitan Transportation Authority, chief Executive Stephanie Wiggins, who talked with Casey Rws, Danielle, UAO about a $3.2 billion federal funding request for Olympic related projects.
That’s a, it’s a lot of money, but they. That request includes borrowing 2,700 buses from across the country, including mechanics, operators, wages, infrastructure, and improvements to mobility hubs. ’cause you know, for
Alison Brown: 17 days we can fix any problem. Oh man,
Jill Jaracz: it is, it’s amazing to me how the games. Require a ton of investment and a, like these massive funding requests. and you wonder like, are we a, are they asking for more money than they need [00:56:00] just in case they come in with a lower amount? Do you ask for more and you settle for less? Or is, is this stuff that like they should have been doing all along and we just, we just needed an Olympic deadline to make it happen.
Alison Brown: Well, we know LA does not have much public transit.
Jill Jaracz: They have some, I mean, I’m, I’m curious to know how many people use public transit? Just they have buses, they have metros. How much do people use it on the regular anyway, we just, I know there are perceptions of, nobody takes public transportation because traffic’s bad, but.
Are there people who are big public transit heads? I don’t know. Just wanted to put on the list.
TKFLASTAN News
Jill Jaracz: Welcome to Stan. It is the time of the show where we check in with our team, keep the flame alive. These are our past guests and listeners who make up our, Citizenship of Shuk Stan, our very own country. First
Alison Brown: up at the 2025 Paris Swimming World [00:57:00] Series in Indianapolis, Olivia Chambers won the combined SB four through nine and 11 through 14, a hundred meter breaststroke.
And Elizabeth Marks won bronze in the mixed class. A hundred meter backstroke.
Jill Jaracz: Daniel Romanek won silver in the men’s wheelchair division of the Boston Marathon
Alison Brown: three x three player. Jim Fette retired from playing basketball and has taken a job as the first managing director of the USA three X three men’s national team,
Jill Jaracz: and sprinter Kenny Bednarek will be racer in the men’s short sprints at Graham Slam Tracks. Second meet in Miramar, Florida on May 2nd through fourth. Then he’s gonna fly to China to represent teen USA at the World Athletics relays in Guango on May 10 through 11. This meet will be a qualifier for the World Athletics world Champs later this year.
Alison Brown: And if you are not following Kenny on Instagram, you have to because he has been posting these great little videos about how he reacts when his coach [00:58:00] yells at him or if he has to do an extra lab. And it’s basically, you know, how Kenny gets his feelings hurt. It’s, it’s a lot of fun. So check, check that out.
’cause we adore Kenny and he is so much fun. And now I feel like he’s putting a little bit more. Of that side of his personality out there, which we got to see by the third conversation with him. it’s a lot of fun.
Get in touch and coming soon!
Jill Jaracz: Excellent. And that will do it for this episode. Let us know your thoughts on the state of mental health and sports.
Alison Brown: We do love hearing from you so you can chat with us and other listeners on our Facebook group. Keep The Flame Alive Podcast. Email us at Flame Alive pod@gmail.com and the voicemail and text line is always open at 2 0 8 3 5 2 6 3 4 8. That’s 2 0 8. Flame it and if you need more Olympics and Paralympics in your life.
And who doesn’t sign up for our newsletter@flamealivepod.com. We’ll have a link to that in the show notes.
Jill Jaracz: Alright, next week [00:59:00] we are, taking a little detour and talking with Dr. Yoav Dubinski, uh, he is, heading up an Olympic studies hub at the University of Oregon, and we talked with him about what that studies hub is and.
Other things related to the Olympics and why it’s important to study them. University of Oregon is having an Olympic Studies week, May 12th through 18th. So this is a great time to share our talk with him. be on the lookout for that. It’s really cool. He is got a lot of really interesting things to say.
thank you so much for listening and until next time, keep the flame alive.