3x Paralympian and U.S. Army World Class Athlete Program member SFC Elizabeth Marks joins us to tell us about her experience in the pool at Paris 2024. Ellie competed in seven events, winning five silver medals. Ellie tells us what she thought about her third Games, including her thoughts on the infamous Paris 2024 chocolate muffins.
Check out Elizabeth sporting one of her new silver medals at Paris:
We also discuss how Elizabeth views swimming is an intellectual sport, how she’s adapted to the sport throughout her career, and how she mentors other athletes.
Here Ellie is winning her fifth medal at Paris:
Learn more about the U.S. Army’s WCAP here and follow Ellie on Insta! Special thanks to the U.S. Army for making this interview possible.
We also have a lot of news from upcoming Games! Milan-Cortina 2026 has unveiled its torches. LA 2028 announced a new Olympic venue plan, new events, and an athlete quota that will see more women than men at these Olympics.
In news from TKFLASTAN, we hear from:
- Sprinter Kenny Bednarek
- Former fencer Olya Abasolo Ovtchinnikova
- Fencer Nick Itkin
Thank you to our ongoing contributors and patrons! This show thrives because of our listeners. If you appreciate the work that goes into this show and want to give back, learn how to do so here. All patrons (including free levels) will soon be able to access a special episode, so sign up today!
Thanks so much for listening, and until next time, keep the flame alive!
Photos courtesy of SFC Elizabeth Marks/WCAP
TRANSCRIPT
Note: This is an uncorrected machine-generated transcript and may contain errors. Please check its accuracy against the audio. Do not quote from the transcript; use the audio as the record of note.
386-Paralympic Gold Medalist Elizabeth Marks
[00:00:00]
Jill Jaracz: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Keep the Flame Alive, the podcast for fans of the Olympics and Paralympics. If you love the games, we are the show for you. I am your host, Jill Jaracz, joined as always by my lovely co-host, Alison Brown. Alison, hello, how are you in the para.
Olympic intro
Alison Brown: at the very end where he goes, Hey, I always feel personally attacked. Oh, it’s play. I know, but I always hear it as, Hey, like, quiet [00:01:00] please. You
like, but I’m doing a podcast. I can’t be sorry.
Jill Jaracz: Oh yeah. Uh, goal ball. Goal ball. Always fun. I have a follow up from last week,
Follow-up File: Roy & HG
Alison Brown: as do I. Okay. Do would you like to go first? Yeah, lemme go first. Okay. So, uh, we mentioned, Roy and hg Yes. And found out not their real names. Right? Right. So it’s Greg Ver, who is HD Nelson and John Doyle as a ramp engine, Roy Slavin.
But in all the articles I read. Except for the one that I found after we did the show, they presented it as if they were their name. So I’m not sure if it’s kind of like they’re always used stage names or if it’s like Peewee Herman, where it’s an just an accepted that, you know, it’s not his real name, but they, anyway.
Right. I just wanted to make that correction.
Jill Jaracz: you have Unleashed a beast with Roy and hg. I have done so much watching of the dream. And the ice stream [00:02:00] and the Russian Revolution, which is Sochi 2014, of which I posted on our Facebook group because I found precedence for toilet talk.
That’s all I will say about Sochi is that there was toilet talk and Sochi and on Roy and H G’s, Russian Revolution Show and all of our toilet talk from Paris there’s some history there. So we are not alone in understanding.
Alison Brown: I was just grateful that at the Boston Figure Skating World Championships, there was no bathroom issues.
So grateful. Didn’t drop anything in the toilet, didn’t get locked in. Everything was just very normal for me. So very relieved. We did not have to revive the segment for that show. Right.
Jill has a beef
Jill Jaracz: but I do have a beef with no. I, I don’t even know if we can call him a friend of the show anymore. And that is Ben Waterworth from Off the Podium.
Why he did not tell us about Roy N HG before? I’m so upset. I mean, I wouldn’t be binging.
Alison Brown: Is is [00:03:00] he too young to remember?
Jill Jaracz: No, because he remembered I’m, this sounds like it’s right up. Ben’s alley. Come on. And when we said we were doing Sydney, he probably should have said, oh, have you seen Roy in hg?
Because they seem to have been a big hit in Sydney. Made a big impact. enough of an impact to exist in future. Olympics. they have a podcast. they had podcasts during Paris, I believe, but they’re only, I can’t get to them ’cause I’m not in the right region.
So a lot of it seems to be dedicated just to the Australian market, to which I say. Because there are other people in the world who love Roy and HG Dish as much and get that humor, so please share. But Ben Waterworth, I have no words for you right now. It’s on.
Patreon: Content for all coming soon
Jill Jaracz: Oh, speaking of content you didn’t know existed. If you are a member of our Patreon, and that’s all levels, and you can even sign up for a Patreon and not pay anything, it’s just another place where we can put some [00:04:00] content.
We do do special content for non-paying members of the show from time to time, and if you’ve been waiting for the latest episode of that content, It’s coming. I’ve just had to record an intro, an outro and put that on. but yes, producer Ben and I saw the movie September 5th and we had a nice conversation about it.
So I’ve got, that episode ready to go, and it will be up on our patron site, relatively soon. That will be patreon.com/flame alive pod. So, look for that to show up in your feeds.
Alison Brown: And if you’ve ever wondered what my handwriting looks like, if you’re a patron, you would’ve seen it. That’s
Jill Jaracz: true.
That’s true. Alison shared some notebook pages, which is, I thought that was cool. That’s a fun, fun insight to, to have.
Alison Brown: I had to be very careful with which pictures of my notebook I posted. I’m already banned in several countries,
Jill Jaracz: but patrons, yeah, you get to see the good stuff. Excellent. So yes, that’s patreon.com/flame Alive pod.
Interview with Elizabeth Marks
Jill Jaracz: Okay. Today we are talking with three [00:05:00] time Paralympian Sergeant first class Elizabeth. Marks. Elizabeth is a swimmer who’s one of the first Paralympians to be in the US Army’s World Class athlete program, To be a Paralympian in that program is a big honor as well. she competed at Rio 2016, Tokyo 2020, Paris 2024. All told she has won two golds, six silvers, and two bronze medals. She’s also competed in the 2016 Invictus Games. Won four gold medals there. In 2016, she was named the recipient of the Pat Tillman Award at that year’s Espb Awards, along with her own swimming and being part of the army.
She is a mentor and informal coach to others. Elizabeth is a fascinating woman. I will say I’ve really enjoyed talking with her and getting a, a different perspective on what it’s like to be an elite level athlete. We talked with her on November 26th, 2024, and are excited to share her our conversation with you.
Now, take a [00:06:00] listen.
Elizabeth Marks, thank you so much for joining us. What was your relationship with swimming before your injury in Iraq?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I knew how to swim. I grew up in Arizona. It was recreational and I thought I, I thought I was a pretty good swimmer until I actually learned how to swim.
Jill Jaracz: When you were doing your rehab, was that when you first really learned how to swim?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Yes, I was trying to remain fit for duty and I went to the pool and there was a very nice woman there who Taught me how to swim and offered to help me write practices and train me and along that journey I met a master sergeant who was getting ready for warrior games and that kind of became how I fell in love with swimming
Jill Jaracz: How long did it take to realize that you were competitive
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I’m not sure that I am competitive.
I, uh, I love swimming. It’s, it’s therapy for me. It’s a celebration of life that I get to have almost every day. And it was a happy [00:07:00] accident. So warrior games was put in front of me and they said, would you like to enter into all the races? And I said, yes. And we tried it and I had fun and I did pretty well at my first warrior games and it wasn’t doing well that made me hooked. It was the environment and putting my body in, in a new challenging situation that I could control.
Alison Brown: Do you think of yourself as competitive person though?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Absolutely not. I’m not a very competitive person. I enjoy competition for probably all of the reasons other than medals.
Jill Jaracz: Was the warrior games how you learned about the World Class Athlete Program?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: It is not. No, I was in the warrior transition battalion as it was called at the time. And I had a friend who was a very talented athlete and he was being recruited to the World Class Athlete Program.
And I asked about it and I asked for a pamphlet and I found out that their headquarters were in San Antonio and I was stationed in San Antonio. So I sought out their headquarters [00:08:00] and let myself in and met a gentleman named Mr. Tennis, who then educated me on how to properly get into the program.
Jill Jaracz: And how do you properly get into the program?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: The World Class Athlete Program has all of the benchmarks in order to enter the program listed online, but essentially you have to be a world class athlete, be able to make a national time standard in whatever your respective sport is, and then submit an application to the World Class Athlete Program to be accepted.
Jill Jaracz: What kind of things do they ask on the application program? Like, do you have to write essays or things like that?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: When I wrote my application, I’m not sure if it’s changed. I could pull it up. It was reaching that benchmark of a national team entry standard. And then I also included a cover letter of intent and trying to, I guess like an abbreviated resume of what I had done as a soldier, what I intended to do as a soldier, how I thought this program could help me, and [00:09:00] how honored I would be to be a part of this program.
Alison Brown: So you were the first female Paralympian, do I have that correct? Yes. Yes, ma’am. So what kinds of things did they have to do to the program to accommodate for you, or were you having to accommodate to the program?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I believe the military is incredibly unique in that a soldier is a soldier and they were already very prepared for me in that an athlete is an athlete, Paralympic or Olympic.
And so they opened the door and they said, how can I support you? And it was much like supporting any other athlete. I just have a longer medical history.
Alison Brown: You were saying how the army adjusts to you as the, as an athlete Paralympian, what, what kind of supports are they giving you?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Well, every sport is unique. Everyone has a different amount of requirements in order to be eligible for games. And that is across the board. Any independent sport and their national governing body is going to be different. And so they just make [00:10:00] sure to be aware and knowledgeable on the topic. We communicate frequently, what has to be done to be able to meet certain benchmarks to hopefully achieve a worlds or games team.
And so it’s pretty straightforward.
Alison Brown: So let’s talk about the differences between, able bodied swimming and your version because obviously depending on disability, everyone’s version of swimming is a little different. So what does your stroke and your kick and your body type, Breathing all look like say just for freestyle.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Goodness. That’s quite the breakdown. I think swimming, no matter what body you’re in is independent to that person. Who’s performing that task. I happen to be an amputee. I do have multiple brain injuries, a lung injury and some other orthopedic injuries, neurological injury, but no two human bodies are the same.
And so I would say in freestyle, everyone has a different mechanism that they’re working with. And each is unique, so I don’t know how to compare mine to [00:11:00] anyone else’s.
Alison Brown: I saw a quote where you were talking about how intellectual swimming is, and I thought that was really interesting because swimming is one of those sports that we don’t think of as being a thinking sport in many ways.
So I’m curious to hear you talk a little bit about that.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Sure. I think it’s a lot of time alone. With your own thoughts. So it’s curious because at first it’s very difficult and you’re just trying to get, or for myself I should say, I’m just trying to get down the mechanics and it’s all this hard work.
And it almost feels like the harder you try, the slower you go with swimming. And that’s why it feels so intellectual to me because you have to work with the water. You have to be very open to moving your body in efficient ways that aren’t always natural. You also have to be open to changing your, um, What you would normally do or your muscle memory would, would be, even as I age or as my injuries progress, it changes all the time.
And so it’s very [00:12:00] intellectual in that you have to be flexible, you have to be open, you can’t Lean back on what maybe worked the last quad. It’s always developing and changing. It’s very exciting
Jill Jaracz: speaking of changing between Rio and Tokyo your body changed a lot because of the amputation So, how did that change where your power comes from how you balance in the water and things like that?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Absolutely. So my injuries were progressive, of course, and after amputation, there wasn’t a lot of difference because I didn’t get much power from that part of my body already. And because I did have chronic health issues. I started feeling a lot better. My energy was a lot better. My balance was a little bit different in the water, just the buoyancy, but overall it wasn’t a huge change for me because I was so used to and had learned how to swim in an already injured body that it wasn’t that difficult to change up how [00:13:00] we were swimming.
Alison Brown: You through reclassification. how is that process for you?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Reclassification is always hard for everybody, I think, especially because when I first got injured, all I wanted to do was be found fit for duty in the Army, and I accomplished that task. And we work really hard to be well, and we work really hard to overcome.
And it was hard for me for a long time to realize that maybe I wasn’t doing as well physically as they thought I was on paper, I look a little bit different than in person because we try so hard to be well, and I am well, and my body is amazing and I’m grateful to live in it. It is hard though, when from the top down, you’re looked at and people properly evaluate you and professionals, let you know where you fall on a sliding scale and it’s hard.
It’s hard. It’s hard. For your ego, it’s hard, to, to have that number, but it’s also an [00:14:00] honor. Cause I look at the women that I race against the S six classification and how strong and how fierce they are. And I realized that it’s a wonderful, beautiful thing to be the classification I am. So it’s hard, but in perspective.
It’s amazing.
Alison Brown: Given the progressive nature of some of your disabilities, will you continue to need to be reclassified?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Because I do have, brain injuries, I will every two years. That is just standard for neurological injuries. As far as I understand, in swimming, every two years, they reclassify.
And that is currently how the system operates. Mary
Jill Jaracz: What do people not understand, with neurological injuries and how that affects training and, and maybe how you feel on a different day or what you can and can’t do in the water on a give, any given basis?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Dr.
Jennifer I don’t know. Uh, I don’t feel comfortable speaking for other people. I know before I had a neurological injury, [00:15:00] I did not understand cognitive interference. I did not understand. balance or proprioception issues. I’ve learned a lot by having a brain injury and I’ve learned a lot by living in this body, but I don’t know what other people do or do not know.
Jill Jaracz: One of the other things with the amputation is the fact that you have an assist with the start. So what are the rules around what you can and can’t do or what that assistant can and can’t do to help you start appropriately?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Sorry, that was my cat in the back.
So for the start, it is a safety measure for me and it’s majorly because I don’t have All of the strength in that right leg that I am trying to push off with and so it’s not very safe for me to do that without someone just making sure I don’t take off the wrong side of the block. And so they are not allowed to assist you in any forward progress.
[00:16:00] They’re there for safety and to enable you to do an appropriate and proper safe block start.
Alison Brown: Now, are you choosing that assistant or is that assigned to you?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Usually, the athlete chooses their assistant. Sometimes, because the nature of life. That person might be busy, and so usually I have a backup in mind, and if that backup isn’t there, then it’s anyone who’s really willing to help me, because that’s what they’re doing at the end of the day, is making sure that I can race, so.
Alison Brown: So what are you telling that person who’s never assisted you before? what they need to do.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I absolutely practice with them first, because that is cruel to make someone do that with no practice. I feel like that and tapping would be very scary. And so it’s essentially, I have two different starts. One where they do not physically touch me at all, which is the one I use in Paris.
They’re just there to make sure if I tilt off either side, they can put pressure on that hip so that I stay in [00:17:00] line. And then the other one is where I am physically helped to stand up and not fall off the front of the block. And so then they would hook their fingers in front of my hip bone so that I don’t list off the front of the block before the start happens.
And all they do is pull their hands away when the buzzer or whatever the starting sound of the day is.
Alison Brown: You mentioned tapping. How do you use a tapper?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Oh, goodness. We sword fight with them. The tapper assists me in not hitting the wall because of brain injuries and because of lung injuries. I have a lot of issue with disorientation as well as loss of vision.
And so it’s a safety measure for me because last thing I want to do is send my head into the wall. So the tapper I will practice with often. My husband is my usual tapper and he is amazing at coaching other people how to use it a lot better than me. And so we spend a lot of [00:18:00] time with him and with another coach helping them to feel comfortable about one stroke out from the wall.
So I know when to strike the wall. We’re about a stroke and a half, two strokes away from the wall. If I’m doing a turn,
Jill Jaracz: What do you think when you feel that tap?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: It’s jarring every time it’s never not jarring. If you were to close your eyes or spin around in a circle a bunch of times until you’re dizzy and then have somebody tap you on the head with a foam thing, it’s disorienting. So it’s kind of jarring. I kind of flinch every time I get tapped.
But it’s also a relief because at a certain stroke count you start premeditating it and thinking oh, no I hope they didn’t miss the tap.
Jill Jaracz: I Was gonna ask if you count your strokes as well and and have like, okay, it’s coming. It’s coming going through your head
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I do I try to sometimes I get too excited and I forget
Alison Brown: you talked a little bit about Disorientation and I’m curious because you do Both backstroke and breast and free, and is [00:19:00] one more or less disorienting than the other?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Breaststroke is probably the least for me. You get a lot more breath, and I’m using both of my arms and legs simultaneously. And so it’s not as disorienting for me.
Backstroke is getting better and the enticing nature of being able to breathe the whole time has made it a lot better. Freestyle is one of the hardest because of using the appendages independently and how quickly my turnover has to be because I am not a large human. That one is definitely the hardest.
Alison Brown: You mentioned that your husband is also your tapper and also your coach. How do you separate coach and husband and how does he separate student and wife?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I think we are both just so grateful to get to share that space. We get along really well. We communicate very effectively and swimming is fun.
Swimming is play. Swimming is joy. So there’s not a [00:20:00] lot of stress associated with it. There is always sports hard and emotions get high, but never with one another, because at the end of the day, we’ve agreed this is a celebration that we get to share with our favorite person. And so he is an amazing coach who doesn’t put any pressure on me.
He thinks I’m the best athlete in the world. And I love that he’s wrong, but I love that he feels that way because it makes me feel a little bit more confident in myself too. And I’m not very competitive. So we both find fun ways to quantify what we’re doing in the pool. So it’s been an adventure. We didn’t know how it was going to go at first.
It was born of necessity. He’s always been a natural leader and he’s always been very patient. And so for the first six months was our experiment phase with him being on deck and coaching. And he took to it and other athletes took to him and he is shining in that environment and I’m [00:21:00] so grateful that he’s on my team.
I would totally fail at that, especially because he’s got that tapper role to not be cheering. So when he’s standing there, but he has a job to do.
He does. He does mention how hard that is on the inside. He’s screaming and he is a very extroverted, loud, joyous person. So it is a good exercise for him, uh, because I’m sure it’s very difficult.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: He’s told me multiple times that exact sentiment, you know, he’ll catch himself getting excited and having to calm down.
Jill Jaracz: how does not being competitive help you or is a disadvantage when it comes to racing? Like, does it make you more chill?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I don’t know.
I’m sure there’s an advantage to that anxiety that most people experience. I’m a little envious of that. I see the energy and you feel it from other people when they’re getting ready to race. Yeah. I’ve been a combat medic for 16 years. And [00:22:00] so racing is, is fun and happy. And so I have had to put it into a different, a different box. Swimming and that competitive edge for me is mostly just wanting to show up and do the best I can for the women next to me. Cause they deserve that. They deserve that pressure. They deserve that dedication. And I look at all of us as kind of teammates, anyone lane one through eight, we are the only people experiencing that moment.
And showing up for each other and making it a team sport in my mind has helped with the competitive nature that I don’t have.
Alison Brown: start it in Rio. What was that experience like for you?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Rio was overwhelming. It was culture shock for me. I have this wonderful support system, which is the World Class Athlete Program full of seasoned athletes who helped mentor me and teach me what it meant to be an athlete and how to become an athlete.
And I was so excited that. I got to show this program that choosing me and letting me be [00:23:00] there was the right choice, and all I wanted to do was perform well. I was used to a culture of support, and I was used to Warrior Games where when you beat each other, you celebrate with each other, and everyone wants everyone to succeed, so I was blissfully ignorant to the world of professional sports, which I truly believe could be that way.
But immediately in my first games was not so much that way. It was intense. People were a lot different than what I was used to. I had a hard time being in that environment. I became very reserved. I was pretty depressed. It was a completely different experience than I thought it was going to be. I also have survival guilt and PTSD.
And so sometimes doing well, doesn’t feel very good. And when I was successful at games, I got a gold and a bronze medal. I had a lot of [00:24:00] self-confidence issue and a lot of guilt associated with that success. That was then compounded by how I was, I was treated by some people and I almost quit swimming, so Rio was really hard for me.
It was wonderful, and I had a lot of great teammates that were powerfully motivating and in my corner. But such a, a juxtaposition of, of also guilt and a little bit of turmoil around those games. So it was very hard, very emotional for me.
Jill Jaracz: How did you deal with the guilt? Like what kind of things did you do actively do to work on not feeling as guilty or being okay with having success?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Absolutely. So I think a lot of my real success in life has been repurposing pain. And so I repurposed pain in the pool to be able to swim fast and try my best and I repurposed the pain of guilt by giving back to my community and trying to advocate for other [00:25:00] service members who might have experienced similar things or open doors that I felt were closed to me when I initially tried to become an athlete or share the healing power of adaptive sports with service members regardless of their status, whether they’re active duty veterans, doesn’t matter what branch of service.
And they have helped me to get over that guilt. It always lives in you, but in order to repurpose that emotion, I think giving to others and trying to spread this beautiful thing of adaptive sports in my community and advocate for people to have access has helped me to at least give it a purpose.
Alison Brown: How was coming back to swimming after that to get ready for Tokyo?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: It was good. I had a very close friend who noticed when people would congratulate me, I would kind of shrink. Who noticed that when I was visible all of a sudden after wanting to be invisible, uh, how uncomfortable I was. [00:26:00] And he pulled me aside and we had a long conversation.
I went back to having a wonderful sports psych and a wonderful regular psych who helped me with that, and emotionally repurposing that is what brought me back to swimming. And it was just as simple as, do you love swimming? Yes. Do you think you deserve a space in swimming? I don’t know. Well, do you think your service members deserve space in swimming?
Yes. Well, then I guess I do too. So that helped me
Alison Brown: so you’re coming back you’re getting ready for Tokyo and then Hi, COVID. And it’s postponed. So how, how did you manage that situation?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: My life has been a series of happy accidents. And so I did it feeling differently about that. Life happens. Life happens.
Sport is a privilege. And we got to be creative and do some home workouts. [00:27:00] And I was still, you know, active duty as a service member, so we still had other obligations and it was hardest to watch my teammates go through that experience than going through it myself because I know for a lot of people they had to put their lives on hold and it was really hard for them and so I felt bad for that. But for me, it wasn’t, it wasn’t too much of an adjustment.
Alison Brown: And you go to Tokyo and you got to do one of my favorite things, which is get a full set of medals. you did a little better than, than in Rio. You came back with three. So was it easier the second time around?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: They’re all so different. Um, it was interesting.
We had our COVID test every morning. There was a lot more work on the front end to get over there. There were no spectators, so there was a lot of different things happening, and my classification, since we’ve already brought it up, falls on odd years, usually. So 2021, I [00:28:00] was reclassified, or going through my classification, just months before trials, and so that was more stressful, uh, than games.
I love a crowd, but I also did not mind having not a crowd And I think that was really hard for some of my competition because they feed off that energy. And I don’t know what that’s like, because I kind of go into tunnel vision. And so it was, it was a unique experience. They’re also different though. I think I was more prepared.
For what it meant to be in that environment. And so that part was easier. There wasn’t as much emotional fallout for me.
Jill Jaracz: going through classification a few months ahead of time. what kind of stress did that bring on in terms of, was it the not knowing what, In, or in what class you were going to swim, that kind of thing, or what made it stressful?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: It’s very intense going through classification because they are so thorough. There’s a physical exam, and there’s a water [00:29:00] exam, and of course they go through your medical records, and it’s pretty exhausting. And with COVID, opportunities to fulfill this requirement were hard to come by. And so, when we got our classification slot is like, okay, ready?
Go, right. And we go, we get classified and with a neurological issue with the body that I live in, sure. You don’t, you don’t know where you’ll end up on the spectrum. you know, I think I’m doing great and I think I’m thriving and I’m going fast times and you just, you don’t know until you know, which is stressful for me.
Alison Brown: And then I think there’s. You know, you have this, this push and pull when I was reading stories about you, where you need to be fit for duty, but you also need to be disabled to compete in the Paralympics. And what you’re saying about I need to be doing really well, but also have these other things to be classified correctly. Does that mess [00:30:00] with your head at all? That juxtaposition?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I’m very fortunate in that my command team is incredibly supportive, and the medical team that takes care of me in the Army is always in my corner and always helping me to succeed. They are so creative, and they are so patient, and It messes with you a little bit because for me, you never want to know that you’re doing worse physically, but I also want to make sure that I am being honest with how I am doing.
Alison Brown: You talked about not needing a crowd. But in Paris, you got crowds and you got loud crowds. We
SFC Elizabeth Marks: did.
Alison Brown: So how was that for you?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: It was great. France was wonderful. The people of Paris came out and they supported, there were some crazy seats way up in the corner where all they could see was the screen and they were full.
People were there for it. They were there for the long haul. [00:31:00] They stayed there and they stayed loud. And whenever there was a French swimmer in the water, it was insanity. Um, so there was a crowd and that was also great.
Alison Brown: What was different for you in Paris? Because now you’ve done this a few times physically. How are you swimming?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I’ve gotten to know my international competition really well, and I care about these young women so much. And so this was especially exciting for me because I have gotten to watch some of these athletes improve so much over the years and just getting to be in the water with them was so exciting.
So I had a whole nother purpose and in Rio, it was just my times and. Experiencing the craziness for the first time in Tokyo. It was meeting this new classification of people and learning them and seeing what that’s like. Now we’ve had worlds together. We’ve had international competitions together and we’re invested in each other’s lives.
And my goal for Paris. Was [00:32:00] to bring the support to my competition that I feel everyone deserves. And I think I did that. So I was very proud and this was a lot of fun. I had so much fun getting in to be in the call room. I think it’s an honor to get to be a lot of their safe space. If they’re emotional, they come to me.
And so those are the wins that nobody gets to see.
Alison Brown: Did you have the chocolate muffin?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Of course, of course, multiple chocolate muffins. Yes.
Alison Brown: How is the muffin?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: It was good. It was more like cake shaped muffin. Yeah. And it’s chocolate cake is good. French chocolate cake.
Alison Brown: You’ve done both the 20 point relay and the 34 point relay, correct? Yes. Okay. So how, how are we putting those together?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Oh, they’re so different. They’re completely different things. the 34 point relay I did when I was in Rio and brand new and experienced in culture shock. And then the [00:33:00] 20 point relay was with people that I’ve known for years.
So it was very different. Both of them were very different.
Alison Brown: How involved are the athletes in putting those teams together? Or is the coach just saying you, you, and you?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Oh, no. There’s a process to be selected for the relays, and it is all very factual and straightforward. And so whomever has earned that slot on the relay is the one who will be on the relay.
And in some incidents, we have people who will do swim offs for the relay, where if they’re very close in time and the same classification, they will swim to try to compete for that slot.
Alison Brown: How much practice do you get to do as a team, or do you need to?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: We had a training camp. Uh, we have to practice trade offs, especially because I won’t be able to see and I need to remember what side of the block to go to, to be most efficient for my teammate.
And in turn, we have like a boss creamy. He will finish with his head into the wall. And [00:34:00] because of how I sit on the block, it’s very hard to see him. So their strategy with who is the most efficient person to be in that place so that our team can have its, its best opportunities to succeed. So we form our team a little bit differently, or at least our lineup for the relay was a little bit different than most countries.
The, quote, fastest times aren’t always on the leg you’ll think they’ll be with us because we’re going for efficiency and safety.
Jill Jaracz: So then do you have to do a lot of practice with putting people in different slots and finding those efficiencies?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: We did in our training camp. We played. Sorry. That’s my cat again. So in training camp, we played with our positions to see who was most comfortable with what and that’s really what we go off of because we want to have a good time.
Relay is the best time you get to work your butt off for other people and. So it should be fun, and it should be comfortable, and people should not be stressed out about what order they’re going in, or if that’s perceived to be a [00:35:00] slow or fast order. So we practice going off the blocks. Our S6 males were the easiest to move around in the Freestyle Relay because they’re just so talented at those block starts.
Leanne and I, we have to be a little bit more choosy about where we go in the Freestyle Relay.
Alison Brown: Is that just because of how your entry works?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Yes, my entry is further back on the block so I can’t see that wall. And then of course, Leanne, she has an in water start. And so for the freestyle relay, she was our starting person.
So even though she’s our lowest classification, she started the show and then I ended up finishing it. And going off of Zach Shattuck, because he’s an S6 male and it was just easier to see him come into the wall than a boss Karimi. And then of course in the IM, there’s a little bit less flexibility because you’re all chosen for a specific stroke.
So I started off that race and Leanne was our anchor who brought it home in the freestyle.
Alison Brown: And now I’m having horrible [00:36:00] visions of you don’t see the person in the pool.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: The last thing you want to do is false start. I don’t want to be that person.
Alison Brown: That’s the least of what could happen, isn’t it?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: They would be the most mad about that though, I think.
Alison Brown: Sure jump on me. It’s fine. But don’t, don’t lose the race.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Don’t you dare false start. Yeah.
Alison Brown: What was the experience like in Paris outside of the pool?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I was pretty busy. I had seven races. I raced the first day and the last day and a bunch of days in between. Outside of the pool, having my husband there for the first time was amazing. And having my command team there to support me while I raced for the first time was amazing. And so those two things alone.
Really brought my energy and focus up. And then most of the time was spent resting my teammate, Hannah Aspden. She’s an amazing swimmer and she was my roommate and our team [00:37:00] captain and her and I honestly laid in bed at any moment we were given, it was so cool to have such an awesome lady to be my roommate and hang out with.
And eat our chocolate muffins.
Alison Brown: In the cardboard beds.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: You know, they’re not that bad. They’re pretty comfortable. Yes,
Alison Brown: that’s what we’ve heard. That it’s all hype.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Hadn’t, I thought it was fine. I mean, I weigh 120 pounds and I’m five five. So maybe I’m not the best judge, but I liked them.
Jill Jaracz: You mentioned learning how to become an athlete. What was that process for you?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Athletics isn’t something that I had spent any time in. I joined the military at 17 years old as a combat medic, and it is a team sport. The military is one giant, beautiful, eclectic team where all you want is for the person next to you to thrive. And so that part was familiar. What was unfamiliar was there’s a lot of nuances in the culture of being an athlete.
Being an athlete is its own culture. And one that I just [00:38:00] was not aware of and had not been exposed to before. And so I still had on those military goggles of, of course, everyone wants everyone else to succeed. It’s a little bit more. introspective in athletics especially in a single sport, like a swimming or track and field where you are racing other people and it is just a one person team.
That was really hard for me to learn. I was unfamiliar with that environment.
Jill Jaracz: How were you in gym class when you were a kid?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Probably very annoying. I don’t know.
Jill Jaracz: No, it’s just, it’s so interesting to have, like, all of a sudden, this is not necessarily the path you would have chosen when you were a kid. Because there’s a lot of kids who be like, I want to play basketball or I want to do, you know, I want to be in the Olympics somehow, or the Paralympics.
And, But like kind of falling into it is an interesting study in, mental approaches and how you can approach things differently. And like you said, the culture is totally different.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: [00:39:00] I love training. Training is what got me hooked to being a swimmer. I like competing. I’m learning to love parts of it and I’m learning that it’s okay to love parts that maybe other people don’t.
And so this has just been a journey like anything else. Everyone’s life takes twists and turns and opportunities are presented or you make opportunity for yourself. And as soon as I found out there was an opportunity to be an athlete. While serving in the military, I got to keep my two favorite things.
Now, my athletic pursuit and being an NCO, It just grows on you. I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t know what it’s like to grow up as being an athlete. I feel like that would be very stressful. It’s, it’s a hard thing to do, to be a professional athlete and to be the best at your craft. is difficult and to grow up in that environment I imagine would be very difficult.
Alison Brown: Do you struggle when the games are over kind of switching back to training and kind of regular life?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I don’t. I love [00:40:00] training. I’m always excited for the lessons learned when I do compete and my husband and I are very excited to implement those lessons that we get to learn and going back to regular life.
And, Being with the World Class Athlete Program and being an NCO. I love my job. I love the community. I serve I love all of those things. I’m always excited for the experience and when it’s over It gives me a lot of fresh new things to think about and implement and then I’m excited for the next journey
Alison Brown: What’s next for you competitively?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I don’t know. I am up again. My two years will be next year for classification. And so I will definitely be at that competition. And I don’t know. I don’t know what’s next. Hopefully I am able to do some national meets and do some outreach. My hope for this year is to take care of some medical issues that I have been putting off and to kind [00:41:00] of do a reset and to give my professional career in the military some attention.
And most excitingly, the Warrior Games are coming back to Colorado Springs in the summer of 2025. And so getting to go there and mentor and cheer on all the service members and veterans who are healing through sport. So this next year will be mostly about refocusing, readjusting, and then whatever competitions happen to line up with that.
Jill Jaracz: What sort of lessons did you learn at Paris that you want to implement in training going forward?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: A couple of the lessons that I learned in Paris is that I get bored sometimes in a call room, so I need to work on Spending extended amounts of time waiting to race. And so sometimes that just looks like warming up, hopping out of the pool, maybe giving myself extra five minutes before I get into a set, just so I make sure that I know what that feeling is like.[00:42:00]
I am. Very patient, usually, but it gets harder the more races you do. So I did definitely learn that about myself. I also learned that seven races is a lot of racing in ten days, especially if you factor in if you’re fortunate enough to have a medal ceremony, which I am very fortunate. I got to have five.
It’s exhausting. It is so, they are long, long days. So I need a, Maybe do some editing.
Jill Jaracz: What is the medal ceremony process like? You finish your race, you get out of the pool, you know you have a podium coming. What happens in that process?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: It’s heavily dependent on the run of show. And so depending where your race falls, it’s either you get out of the pool, You go through media alley real quick and then you throw on your uniform for the ceremony and then you go straight there and then you walk out to a podium and it’s very whirlwind or you’re fortunate and maybe you fall a little bit [00:43:00] earlier in the schedule so you’ll have time to get your speed suit off and get ready for that podium.
I’ll share a very unique and fun experience that I got to have. I swam the 2 IM and the 20 point freestyle relay in the same day. And we meddled in both events and between the 200, I am swimming it. I was also tagged by USADA. And so I went straight from the pool to drug testing and straight from drug testing to try to shimmy my swimsuit back on, made it to the podium and straight from that podium to the call room for the 20 point relay, slam the 20 point freestyle relay.
And then we went straight from there because it was the last event to the podium. And then I finally got to take that speed suit off. It’s, it can be a little bit difficult.
Alison Brown: Okay. Cause I have heard that those speed suits can take up to half an hour to [00:44:00] get into and out of.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Oh yes. My knuckles were very blistered, but we did it.
Alison Brown: You just want to look at the USADA guy and go, seriously, can you just wait an hour, please?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Well, they will wait for you. So it’s a little bit my fault. but I did have to use the restroom, so things just line up how they line up sometimes.
Jill Jaracz: Oh, do you ever worry about cooling down in that kind of process? Like when you’re ready, you got to hop back in for the relay. Do you have any time to warm up again?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: So sometimes yes, and sometimes no, and my coach Mason is very good about implementing that into training. We’re very familiar with that.
Being my third games, it isn’t the first time. He is a coach or myself as an athlete has had to be comfortable and confident in situations where you can’t, because a lot of times those things are interrupted and you can’t warm up all the way you can’t cool down. And because I do require [00:45:00] tappers, a lot of my warmup is going to be dry land as opposed to in the pool, just because I will need two coaches and sometimes there’s not two coaches available.
So it’s trial and error and being comfortable and confident in what you know you can do.
Alison Brown: And getting your speed suit back on.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: That’s the hope.
Alison Brown: Honestly, that would be a warm up in and of itself.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: It was. I was very sweaty. I made it to the call room and I wheeled in there and Leanne was like, are you okay? I’m good now. Ready to go.
Jill Jaracz: How are the Invictus Games? What are they like?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: The Invictus Games are great. They’re much like the Warrior Games. We just get to also celebrate with our allied nations. So it’s ill, sick, injured, and wounded from all over the world.
And Mace and I have had the honor of getting to coach the Ukrainian team and the Colombian team at Invictus Games. Swimming at Invictus Games in 2016 was a great celebration prior to 2016 games for me because that’s, they’re my family. They’re my hype team. [00:46:00] They believe in me way more than I believe in myself.
And so the Invictus Games is a bunch of service members who get to celebrate ability through sport. And I love that it’s championed by so many. I love that it’s affecting so many lives. And I love the other countries who maybe don’t have the support that we do are getting the visibility that they deserve and the support that they deserve.
Alison Brown: What has changed in your swimming because you’ve put that coaching cap on?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: I feel like I’m more of a mentor than a coach. I just like to fill in when people maybe don’t have anybody. So if somebody wants to have some lessons learned from me, I definitely don’t consider myself a full time coach because I’m not.
I just try to bridge that gap for people who maybe don’t have access to things that I can help them with in real time. And for instance, at Invictus Games, it’s never, we never go there intending to coach anyone. Sometimes countries just don’t have a coach or someone to do those coaching duties for them.
And so thanks to [00:47:00] Fisher House Foundation, we’re there, we’re supporting, we’re mentoring, we’re advocating, and skillset that has been able to be used a couple of times.
Jill Jaracz: When you work with people. who have been injured and they’re trying to figure out what to do next. What’s their reaction when they get into the water, perhaps, and see what they are capable of doing?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Some people thrive. I have, uh, someone who’s a standout for me is Mike Murphy. He’s a very talented cyclist now.
He’s visually impaired. And I used to get to help him in the pool at Fort Carson often. And he is just so naturally talented. I’m so jealous. He just picked everything up, and he’s thriving with it, and he loves it, and he’s a great talent. And then I have some who are transitioning and learning how to be in their new bodies, and they’ll cuss me out because they hate swimming, and that’s okay too.
It’s, it’s different, but no matter what, there’s some [00:48:00] emotional expenditure. Whether they’re like, this is awful, I hate it here. Well, we learned something. No one ever walks away not learning something.
Alison Brown: I know you said you, you don’t know what’s next, but I’m curious as to, I know when you were saying before how you love all the happy accidents. So I have a feeling I know the answer already. If you had control over it, what would you choose?
SFC Elizabeth Marks: My favorite. Thing to do is to champion others and selfishly, it brings me so much joy. And so any way that I can bring value to the World Class Athlete Program, to the Army, to my brothers and sisters in the military and to the people and the disabled community that I get to be a part of, that’s my favorite choice is to.
Be involved, advocate, say the truth, be the truth, and show up for people, because people showed up for me.
Was that your guess? Is that what you guessed?
Alison Brown: [00:49:00] That is not what I guessed at all. So thank you for proving me wrong, Ellie Marks. You didn’t tell me to know. I thought you were going to tell me, I don’t know, I just want to see what happens. That’s the fun part.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Oh, I’m comfortable in chaos, but I do love some structure.
Alison Brown: You are in the military after all
SFC Elizabeth Marks: for quite some time. Yes,
Jill Jaracz: ma’am. Sergeant First Class Marks. thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story. We really appreciate your time.
SFC Elizabeth Marks: Thank you so much for having me.
Jill Jaracz: Thank you so much, Elizabeth, on Instagram. She is at Ellie Anne with an e Marks and you can find out more about the world-class athlete program@goarmy.com and army wc p.com.
Milan-Cortina 2026 News: We have torches!
Jill Jaracz: Ooh. We have torches. [00:50:00] We have torches. We have
Alison Brown: torches.
Jill Jaracz: you have a tone, we have torches. You have a tone? What’s going on?
Alison Brown: Well, let’s, let’s explain the torches first. So the design is called essential, which is a tribute to their minimalism. It was designed by Studio Carlo rat socia, and designed and produced by, Kavana Group, reflective.
is a very reflective surface. When you look at those first pictures that I posted and then watch the video, you will have a very different opinion on how they look. Okay. this I thought was kind of cool. The finish is made with a unique physical vapor deposition technology. It sounds cool and the color is constantly changing in different light.
The Olympic blue green is called shades of sky, and the paralympic bronze color is called mountains of light. The very narrow, very simplistic design is meant to highlight the flame in the pictures. [00:51:00] I did not see this part, but apparently there’s a section where you can see the inner components of the torch.
did you see that in
Jill Jaracz: the pictures? I, I it looks like there is a, a little. Panel Yes. Down the side that you can see. But they didn’t show, they didn’t light it up, which bugged me out. But I think, well, we have no Olympic flame yet, so you can’t use the torch.
But you know, you did test that. Come on. You had to test this.
Alison Brown: Yeah. But they’re not gonna photograph it yet.
Jill Jaracz: No.
Alison Brown: So it’s made from recycled to aluminum and brass alloy. It will use a bio LPG fuel made from cooking oil, animal fats and residues from agriculture. They made a big deal about the sustainability of these torches, and each torch can be refilled up to 10 times and reused, so there won’t be, once again, there won’t be as many torches produced as in previous Olympics Relays.
Jill Jaracz: Collectors take note because I already saw Michael [00:52:00] Payne is very excited to add the torch to his collection.
Alison Brown: So people are really, again, and this happens every time. People are very split. This is a very divisive, design. It seems like some people said, I love some of the comments on Instagram. You’re Italian, you can do better than this.
Ooh. That, you know, Italians created the, the Renaissance and gave us baroque art. You gave us a vape pen. Wow. my first thought when I looked at it is that it looked like a pen, like something bick produced. Odd since it BS a French country. But just that was my immediate thought thinking, oh, it looks like a big special pen.
But then I thought, oh, merchandising option. They are gonna have torch pens, which I will happily take. And it does look much better in motion than it does in. Photograph, what disappoints me the most is it doesn’t feel like it ties [00:53:00] into the pictograms. Remember, the pictograms had that motion quality to them?
I said they were all swoopy. Oh, right, right. And it looked like the breeze was flowing through it. And this didn’t have that.
Jill Jaracz: No, it is very minimalistic. It looks more, I, I mean, it’s got the logo on it, so it’s got that two six. That’s very minimalist. Futuro look, and I think this echoes that a little bit.
Alison Brown: The color threw me also because all the pictograms are white and the logo is mostly white. And then you have these very vibrant colored torches. So I’m slightly concerned about the unity of their design concept.
Jill Jaracz: Well, and, and I just pulled up the, press release The Olympics logo is white and the Paralympics logo is multicolored. So you have a blue green torch for the Olympics, and you have, which I guess you can then see the white logo, but then you have, uh, this multicolor [00:54:00] logo going on a bronze, well, it’s probably not even on there. No, it’s just all white, on the logo.
But you make the Paralympic one a neutral color. Let’s say it’s bronze, but it’s a neutral color compared to a vibrant bluegreen.
Alison Brown: it feels like the colors should have been swapped.
Jill Jaracz: Mm-hmm.
Alison Brown: Like the Bluegreen would’ve made more sense with the Paralympics in that the logo has some blue and green in it.
you know, we come off of Tokyo and even Paris who had such unification in their design concepts. Everything fit together, everything built off one another and Italy that you would expect to just be the pinnacle of design. Is disappointing me a little bit, but please let us know what you think of the torch.
Jill Jaracz: Oh, well, okay. It, I have two very separate things. I, well, let me go back to the torches because I have something else that I noticed that really excited me in the announcement of them. first off, when you look at the colors of the torches and you, you read the big. [00:55:00] Very in depth design, meaning behind every element of these torches, there’s more, there’s more meaning infused into these torches than there is torch detail in the torch.
well, the torches are long. I will say that they’re much longer than the Paris torches. so the colors of the torches celebrate the bond between humans and nature, sport and the future. The Olympic torch lights up with shades of sky inspired by Italy’s ever-changing landscape, a color that speaks of movement, hope, and transformation.
The Paralympic torch glows with mountains of light, honoring the inner strength of Paralympic athletes and the power of their courage to reshape the world. It’s the inspirational Paralympic athlete trope that they are tired of too. I mean, Olympians aren’t inspirational and they don’t have inner strength.
Yeah, that bothers me that, that we’re still on the inspiration porn, so to speak, of Paralympic athletes, and we can’t just celebrate their athletic abilities that. [00:56:00] They have to be the ones to carry the mark of inspiration in everything that they do. So that ticked me off. but the one thing I was very excited about was, did you watch the video?
Yes. I. Those jackets, that baby,
Theme Music: they were jacket different,
Alison Brown: they were not what the Italian team usually wears.
Jill Jaracz: No. So, uh, I know Baby V was one of the people at, uh, one of the unveilings, ’cause they unveiled them here and then they unveiled them in Osaka Expo 2025. So, baby Vu and then Sia Delmondo did them in in Milano and, Martina Caroni and Carolina Costner unveiled them in Osaka. They wore these hoodies zip up hoodies that were Navy and then down the center was a panel of the red, white, and green of Italian flag. And it was like this heavy mesh and it was cool [00:57:00] looking. And I want one of those. Let’s see what we can do.
Alright, thanks. That’s my, that was the most exciting thing about the torches. I, I don’t think they’re bad. they’re minimalist. Maybe they’ll look really cool with the flame and maybe they’ll look cool while running. And I, I think the technology sounds very cool I think when they’re lit and we see the inner workings, that will be very cool and we’ll get really excited about that.
But right now, and.
Alison Brown: It’s a torch. if you see a pen set though, please get that for me for Christmas.
Okay. Um, do we have another chapter of the sliding novella?
Jill Jaracz: No, not really. a story from the Associated Press that, oh, they’ve increased the budget again, the organizing committee of Milan Cortina has, so in March, 2024, last year, they said the lifetime budget is going to be 1.5 billion euros.
So now that has been increased to 1.7 billion [00:58:00] euros, but let’s conveniently not include. Your final totals for these games? 118 million for the sliding center, because that’s being taken care of by government stuff. And 300 million for the ice hockey arena in Milan. ’cause it’s a brand new structure. and then there’s also going to be big infrastructure projects for roads and railways that will be taken care of by, that’s in the government’s budget as well.
So if you included. The two venues that they’re building for these games we’re at, uh, 2.118 billion euros. And, they’re always gonna compare to other games. Sochi is always gonna be the one that sticks out because it was $51 billion that we know about. Yes. And Beijing, they estimate at 4 billion. and Beijing did build a big air venue.
They built. A ski jumping, I think. Yes. And they built, a, a long track speed skating rink. You’re not that far away [00:59:00] from Beijing, to be quite honest with all the, the building that they did. I don’t think that’s the last we’re gonna hear about a budget increase.
Alison Brown: No, this is Italy. Right. And we keep hearing this and we’ve talked about the Paris budget and we’ve talked previously about some of, you know, Sochi and Beijing.
What’s the real number?
You know, what did these really cost? And they play all these games of, well, the government paid for this, or we built a railway and now you have a railway. So it’s very hard. We have to wait for the Economist to kind of do this, this backend. Analysis to get some real numbers.
So we don’t really know what things cost until a few years after when somebody from outside comes in and does forensic accounting
Theme Music: mm-hmm. And
Alison Brown: pulls it all together and we’ve gotta stop playing these games and just be straight with the public, be straight with these cities who are bidding and say, this is what it’s gonna cost.
Yeah. You’re gonna get benefits from it. [01:00:00] Please stop playing games. Right.
Jill Jaracz: On a happier note, the games are going to have an official Paralympic documentary. We always had the Olympic movie. Now we have an official Paralympic movie. The organizing committee has signed an agreement with the creators of rising Phoenix to produce a long form documentary and other content. before the games, there’s gonna be a social media series following athletes on the road to 2026, there’s gonna be a season of rising Phoenix.
What does it take? The podcast. And then after the games, there’s gonna be the, the long form documentary that we know from the Olympic side. So. That’s going to be very exciting. And I didn’t realize this is the fir 50th anniversary of the first winter Paralympics.
Alison Brown: Well, the rising Phoenix Phoenix people have produced such high quality, material related to, to Paralympians.
So that’s Oh, you’re gonna make a movie. Oh. But the rising Phoenix people are doing it. Oh, good.
Jill Jaracz: They’re in good hands.
Alison Brown: Going back to your comment before about inspiration porn, we’re we’re good.
LA 2028 News
[01:01:00]
Alison Brown: Oh my goodness, so much LA news and if you are confused listener, you are in good, good hands with Jill because I am so confused and overwhelmed that I am counting on Jill to explain this to me. Alright.
Jill Jaracz: they announced the athletes quota, the medal events. and then we’ve got where the, the new events are gonna add athletes.
And then we also have a lot of venue announcements too. ’cause they made a whole bunch of changes to venues and they finalized some other ones. So there’s going to be 351 medal events. There were 329 in Paris, so a lot more events, but we are going to have the same basic athlete quota, 10,500. Okay. You, you just talked about the accounting. They do the same fuzzy math with the athlete quotas too. So they’re all excited.
We’re gonna meet the athlete quota 10,500, except for we’re gonna also have [01:02:00] 698 athletes to cover our five new sports that we negotiated to put on the program. So, baseball, softball, cricket, flag football, lacrosse, and squash. Not a lot of athletes. I was surprised at how few athletes they were adding.
Considering those are all team sports? Yes, with the exception of squash. Squash. but we’ll get to squash. a number of changes got made to the schedule as well. So
For football. The women’s competition got expanded to 16 teams on the men’s side. They’re shrinking it down to 12 teams. And so that’s flipped from Paris 2024. This is with FIFA’s blessing. Yes. I’d love to know those conversations ’cause I would not be surprised if FIFA went, oh, you wanna shrink the men’s tournament?
Fine, because. It’s already an under 23 for the most part, so you don’t have a ton of people. People still get excited about Olympic football because it’s football, but that puts [01:03:00] more emphasis on the World Cup.
Alison Brown: Right, because you’re gonna see even fewer of those big stars. You know, they usually allow you to have one or two Overaged stars in the men’s tournament, and also FIFA Smart in the sense of now you can really highlight also the women’s stars in certain areas of, of the world and LA the US women come on.
Right, right, right. So let’s put more emphasis on the women’s tournament
Jill Jaracz: and. Will FIFA put less emphasis on the Women’s World Cup then if they want the Olympic tournament to be the, the big dog comparatively. Even with the, an expanded women’s competition, you’re still with half of the number of teams that are in a World Cup. So it’s bigger, but, but football is still kind of downplayed for the Olympics. it’ll be interesting to see because with the, the changes in quotas.
There’s going to be more women than men at these Olympics, so that’s getting touted as well. And we’ve had some [01:04:00] discussion on the Facebook group about how don’t love that idea. For some, for some people would like equality more so than more women than men.
Alison Brown: And a, a lot of people were asking how that math happened, and I think it’s these team sports.
Mm-hmm. That up to the number of women’s teams. And then you still have. Other sports that keep the same quota numbers. So again, fuzzy math and not sure if that really, again, when we talk to, to Dr. Donnelly about equality versus equity versus parody. Is the money going to the women’s sports is, are they being highlighted or are not even highlighted?
Are they being treated equally? Well, we’ll see as we go along.
Jill Jaracz: Boxing is going to have. One more weight class for women. So now we will have seven classes for both men and women. What I don’t understand there is, are the numbers of participants [01:05:00] fewer overall.
So did every weight class lose, lose a couple people? We’ll look into that. in water polo, the women’s tournament expanded from 10 to 12 teams. The men’s will stay 12 teams, so now we’re on equal playing fields there, three x three, both men’s and women’s tournaments are expanding from eight teams to 12 teams.
I’m very excited about that.
Alison Brown: I love this. Three x three was, we loved it in person and the crowd certainly loved it. It’s. It is so different than five on five very, it really feels like such a separate sport and different countries are really good at it. So I really like this inclusion of a urban sport.
Yes. You know, that gets a lot of
Jill Jaracz: yes
Alison Brown: derision. But this I think is a great addition.
Jill Jaracz: we will see the debut of coastal rowing. This takes a place of lightweight rowing, which made its last appearance of Paris 2024 there will be women solo men, solo, and then mixed doubles. Sport climbing has [01:06:00] expanded into three separate metal events, so now they have finally split apart speed boulder and lead into their various events. New swimming events. This has got people stoked and also people weren’t thrilled about it.
I saw some like derision over adding 50 meter events in backstroke, breaststroke and butterfly for both men and women. You are stoked.
Alison Brown: I love a splash and dash. I saw a lot of people just being excited to have these kind of fun fast races.
Theme Music: Mm-hmm.
Alison Brown: So what was the derision?
Jill Jaracz: Why do we have to add them?
Alison Brown: Oh,
Jill Jaracz: kind of thing.
Oh, oh. Swimming gets more events. I’m excited that other stroke specialists get a 50 meter option. That’s my, that was my excitement because there’s a lot of extra freestyle and not so much in the other sport. In the other strokes, gimme backstroke all
Alison Brown: day. [01:07:00]
Jill Jaracz: Archery is getting an extra event. Compound Bo has been added.
Alison Brown: Oh, our very close friend, listener Meredith, is so excited about this.
Jill Jaracz: You know, who else was excited? Uh, Animan.
Alison Brown: Well, he loves, he loves his sport more than anything else.
Jill Jaracz: we’ve got mixed gender team events added to artistic gymnastics with, we don’t have details on what that’s gonna be, but they’re gonna have a mixed team event that will be interesting because of the different apparatuses that men’s and women’s have.
And how do you fit them all in the same stage?
Alison Brown: And not only just the physic, the, the logistics of it, but also, you know, obviously certain countries. Are really good in men’s and really good in women’s, and it doesn’t always transfer as the same country. And how do you put those teams together and how are they gonna put these events together and who would end up being on top of those?
Right.
Jill Jaracz: We will also have [01:08:00] mixed gender team events for golf, which I am excited about that in the, as much as we don’t talk about. Olympic golf very much. I’m glad that there’s another event for that course. mixed gender table tennis and also mixed gender team archery.
So I’m excited about all of the mixed gender team events. I’m excited that there, I, I just like the fact that there get more events added to sports to give athletes more options and also use those venues.
Alison Brown: Well, I love mixed gender events because you’re putting men and women on this. I’ve said this a million times.
You’re putting men and women athletes on the same stage together at the same time to show, you know, there’s always that. Well, nobody watches women sports. Well put ’em on the same team, and let me tell you something, you’re gonna love it.
Jill Jaracz: Squash has gone down in its quota. So we, we were talking about, were they making all these quota spots? Squash was supposed to be 32 PE per 32 athletes per gender. They’ve [01:09:00] gone down to 16 per gender, so they’ve really cut that back. And then race walk, the mixed relay is out. We’re down to one event per gender.
Not surprising. Evan, uh, Dunphy. Not thrilled and I don’t blame him. It’s tough to see a sport that you love. I don’t blame him. It’s tough to see a sport that you love get kind of pushed out. come on, Brisbane, don’t fail us. 24 outta 31 federations have asked for changes for their, program from Paris.
So that’s why we have 46 new events here. Interesting.
Alison Brown: You missed the mixed gender relay.
Jill Jaracz: Oh yeah, that’s right. A four by 100 and track.
Alison Brown: How cool is that gonna be?
Jill Jaracz: That’s gonna be very, very cool. Or if you’re gonna be a pessimist, how will the US mess that up?
Alison Brown: Oh, I’m calling GB for gold on that one.
Jill Jaracz: Oh, are you okay?
Oh, yeah. Oh, ooh. Three years. Okay. Predictions [01:10:00] have been made. All right. Qualification processes are in the works. Those should come either late this year or early next year because we’re getting to that point as well.
And then we have lots of venue changes. I love this. Uh, they wanted to have beach volleyball in Santa Monica because that is the birthplace of beach volleyball. Santa Monica said no. They said it’s peaked tourist season. It’s going to, cost us $15.54 million to host beach volleyball, and that would only generate 14.09 million in revenue.
If we don’t host it, we’ll get less revenue. Uh, we’d only get 11.3 million in tourism revenue, but that would only cost us $650,000.
Alison Brown: Can’t argue with that. I mean, cities have to make these choices. Mm-hmm. And to be alone out there, you know, one of the things that you’re gonna get to is, is this clumping of events.
And if you’re the only event out in Santa [01:11:00] Monica, you’re, you’re just not gonna see the bump that you need to make it worthwhile.
Right, right, right.
Jill Jaracz: So beach volleyball has moved to Long Beach, along with a host of other events. equestrian moved again. So the original plan was a temporary facility in the Veda basin recreational area. Last June, they moved it out to Temecula and Riverside County, which is kind of east of, of uh, la and that was two hours away from the original site.
Now they’ve moved it again. So according to the sports examiner, this move, uh, to, Arcadia, they’re gonna be at the Santa Anita Park there. That’s a. In response to a request from OBS, the Olympic Broadcasting Services, to have all the equest equestrian events in one place to increase drama, reduce costs, and reduce production complexities.
obviously out in Riverside, they were [01:12:00] surprised. The new venue is the old venue from LA 1984. We were going back to an LA 1984 venue for equestrian and Rich Perlman from the Sports Examiner said in 1984, that site was too hot for cross country, so they had to move it, and they moved it down to Fairbanks Ranch, which was two hours south of la.
So they had to truck the horses down there and truck them back up.
Alison Brown: I would think that he. Tolerances now are much higher than they were in 84, just because in general, the planet’s getting warmer. Many events are happening in higher temperatures, so I would think that both athletes, riders, and horses are acclimated to higher temperatures than they were then.
So maybe it won’t be a problem.
Jill Jaracz: I’m hoping. Maybe, and, and who knows, maybe they’ve also got more shaded areas. We, I don’t know how the, the park itself has evolved. ’cause hopefully it’s not the same facility that it was in 1984, either. That will be interesting to see. We [01:13:00] have a lot of clumping of venues, which Long Beach
Alison Brown: gets a ton,
Jill Jaracz: right?
So. Lot of stuff in LA proper, which includes three x three athletics baseball, which is gonna be in Dodger Stadium. So get excited for that. That’s awesome. boxing, uh, the cycling road race is going to start in Venice Beach. They’ll have diving, fencing, flag football, golf, judo, lacrosse. also starting point for the marathon is gonna be in Venice Beach.
Modern Pentathlon, rhythmic gymnastics, squash, which will be in the Universal Studios lot. Do you think Harry Potter will compete? I don’t. I don’t know. It would be funny if you were actually working.
And just showed up. What if you
Alison Brown: were like in your costume and you’re just like, yeah,
Jill Jaracz: just like, oh, I got a break. Let me, let me duck over and see some squash. table tennis, TaeKwonDo, triathlon, weightlifting and [01:14:00] wrestling. Huge number of sports in la. Proper volleyball will be out in Anaheim, which is kind of a hall outside of, la but, Also, that’s where Disneyland is. Mickey is showing up to make some spikes, right? Arcadia will have equestrian, which is just a little north of the city. Carson will have archery, track cycling, hockey, rugby sevens, and tennis. Then Long Beach, which, and Carson is in between LA and Long Beach.
So it’s not, it’s on the way. Long Beach is gonna have artistic swimming, beach volleyball, canoe, sprint, handball, marathon swimming, rowing, and coastal rowing, sailing, shooting, sport climbing, and water polo. They’ll have target shooting shooting’s been split up into two venues, so target shooting is gonna be at the convention center and Long Beach.
And then, Shotgun shooting is going to be at the shotgun center in South El Monte, which is also not far [01:15:00] away. Englewood will have basketball and swimming. Those are literally across the parking lot from each other, basically. Yeah, we, when we were at SoFi, we could see it. Yeah. And
Alison Brown: oh, swimming in SoFi.
I still, it’s
Jill Jaracz: gotta be amazing. Oh my goodness. Uh, Pasadena will have football at the Rose Bowl stadium. I imagine those are going to be late stage matches. We don’t have preliminary football venues yet. surfing will be at San Clemente, which is kind of a little further south. That seems to be a little more out of the way.
Um, but it’s not in Tahiti. No, it’s not in Tahiti. That’s a good thing. Uh, Oklahoma is gonna be the one outlier venue city, and that will have canoe, slalom and softball. And then we’re still waiting also for the rest of the cycling road. course the mountain bike venue and football preliminaries. So it’s kind of a, i, I would say it’s fairly compact given.
How big and spread out LA and the LA area is.
Alison Brown: Well, it’s really nice that [01:16:00] wherever you’re gonna stay, you’ve got multiple choices. Yeah. You know, you’ve got these, these clusters and they truly are clusters. It’s not like, oh, we’re kind of, you can get to, if you’re staying in Carson, all the venues. That are in Carson.
Theme Music: Mm-hmm.
Alison Brown: And it’s, you can be there for two solid weeks and see something every day.
Jill Jaracz: So that will be cool. The convention center is gonna be hopping in Los Angeles and also the Long Beach Convention Center will be hopping and, and as well the Long Beach Convention Center. A lot because they’re gonna put a pool in there and have artistic swimming and water polo.
Sport climbing is gonna be in the lot as well, so they’re gonna have all these stuff outside. It’s gonna be fun. I think, you know, it’s gonna be, some of these areas are gonna be like arena sued from Paris where you had so much stuff going on that it could be like a little party or like the, I [01:17:00] imagine the lot in.
Long Beach is gonna be a little like the urban park,
Alison Brown: the pla Concord. Yes. Where you can, and one of the things that people, uh, complained about with the plaster concord is it wasn’t enough of a focal point. It didn’t feel enough like that party atmosphere of, say, a Centennial Park of Atlanta. So la. Use that, you know, have music going, have events, have things happening right in that center so that in between events that are happening, people just wanna be a part of the atmosphere.
I mean, that’s why people go to this. That’s the point. You know, you have things together. ’cause otherwise you’re just going to a world championships. Right. And have shade.
Jill Jaracz: That would be the thing. Have shade. I, that was the problem with pla, the Concord, is that they couldn’t. There was no place to hang out.
And so you were either in line at the concession stand [01:18:00] or you were huddled under that tiny little, the tiny little shade areas. But they tried. I will say that they tried.
French Alps 2030 News
Alison Brown: Patronage.
Jill Jaracz: The desert News reported that for French Alps, 2030 speed skating likely will not be in France because they would have to build a rink and they don’t want to. So they’re looking at Netherlands and Italy as potential backup hosts for that,
Alison Brown: though, holy cow speed skating in the Netherlands. Ah, can you imagine
Jill Jaracz: that?
But isn’t that far? It would be far. it would be a plane ride or like an overnight train if you were really lucky. But it’s, it’s a hike away. And same with Italy. I don’t know where they would be looking at in Italy. Maybe Milan. Maybe Trina. But Milan is even a temporary venue ’cause they’re using a convention center.
So where they’re gonna go, I’m not quite sure. But Netherlands could [01:19:00] be cool, Like you’ve said, when you separate everything, it takes away a lot of the Olympic field. That’s a big sport to take away an Olympic field, but to put it in Netherlands,
that would be cool.
TKFLASTAN News
Jill Jaracz: Welcome to Shuk Stan. It is the time of the show where we check in with our team, keep the flame alive. These are past guests and listeners who make up our very own citizenship of our very own country.
Alison Brown: Shuk Stan. Kenny Beek won both the 100 meter and 200 meter sprints at the inaugural grand Slam track in Kingston Jam.
Jill Jaracz: Oh of Kova is now head of Athlete Communications and digital activation at the International Olympic
Alison Brown: Committee. Fencer, Nick Ikin has launched the Nick Ikin Foundation to break down the financial barrier to fencing and making the sport more accessible. The foundation is offering free classes and hopes in future to fund equipment, training and travel for kids to grow in the [01:20:00] sport.
Nick also had a little star on his this week. Uh, Nick also won the Division one National Championship in Men’s Foil.
Get in touch and coming soon
Jill Jaracz: Excellent, and that will do it for this episode. Let us know what you think of all of the Torch News and the venue news for LA 2028.
Alison Brown: We do love hearing from you. You can chat with us and other listeners on our Facebook group that has been.
Very full of opinions and that’s keep the Flame Alive Podcast. You can email us at Flame Alive pod@gmail.com and the voicemail and text line is always open at 2 0 8 3 5 2 6 3 4 8. That’s 2 0 8. Flame it and if you need more Olympics and Paralympics in your life. And who doesn’t sign up for our newsletter@flamealivepod.com.
Love a link to that in the show notes.
Jill Jaracz: Next week. I’m so excited about this. we’ll be talking with Ryan Cooper from USA Cycling [01:21:00] who worked with the track team on a project called Project 4 0 5. Just won a major award for his work there. And we are going to hear all about how. They built the strategy that helped the women’s pursuit team Team pursuit to win gold at Paris 2024.
If you’re into cycling, if you’re into data, you will not wanna miss this. So Cool. Thank you so much for listening and until next time, keep the flame alive.