We’re nearing the start of the winter sports season, but as we’ve learned from past years, just because we’re getting into winter, that doesn’t mean we’ll have enough snow for winter sports.
Climate change will have a big impact on future Winter Olympics and Paralympics, including the ones beinTo discuss climate change and future Winter Olympics, we talked with Lisa Riley Roche, reporter at the Deseret News in Salt Lake City. The Olympics is one of Lisa’s regular news beats. She covered the SLC 2002 Games and has been covering everything going on with the Utah 2034 Games. We talked with Lisa about climate, what IOC president Kirsty Coventry may change about the Winter Olympics, and some venue changes for Utah 2034.
Also on this episode, Germany will be bidding for an upcoming Summer Olympics and Paralympics. They’ve put their hat into the ring for 2036, 2040 or 2044, and say they’re good with any of those dates. There is, however, a good reason why 2040 might be the best year for them – listen to find out why!
Photo credit: Spenser Heaps, Deseret News
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TRANSCRIPT
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448-Lisa Riley Roche-Winter Olympics and Climate Change
Theme Music
Jill Jaracz: Hello, and [00:00:30] welcome to another episode of Keep the Flame Alive, the podcast for fans of the Olympics and Paralympics. If you love the games, we have the show for you. I am your host, Jill Jaracz, joined as always by my lovely co-host, Alison Brown. Alison, hello. How are you?
Alison Brown: I am doing okay. How are you doing?
Jill Jaracz: Well, I’m g- I’m getting ready to go on vacation, so this is a
Alison Brown: bit-
Jill Jaracz: Good for you … this is a, a vacation with, not much responsibility attached to it.
Alison Brown: Oh,
Jill Jaracz: that’s the best kind. I’m going to,
Alison Brown: going to
Jill Jaracz: a– I’m going to a wedding, and that’ll [00:01:00] be nice, and there’s some days built in around it, but, uh, there’s no doctor’s appointments, there’s no hospital visits, there’s no storm cleanup going on.
This– there’s no surgery recovery to do. This is, gonna be hopefully a treat. This is
Alison Brown: true, true vacation.
Jill Jaracz: Exactly. So we are taping a little bit early, uh, so that you have some content while we’re, uh, taking a little time off. And, uh, what else is coming up? S- winter sports season. [00:01:30]
Alison Brown: I am ready. I am so ready for figure skating because I’ve been seeing all the clips and all the, the really early season things, and I am so ready for it.
Jill Jaracz: I am too. I have also seen clips. I am, astounded by costumes in the ice dance world.
Alison Brown: As you always are.
Jill Jaracz: Right.
Alison Brown: We get a waltz this year, which is amazing after the past couple years of, you know, 50s and 60s and 80s and 90s. They’ve gone back to traditional rhythm dance, so we’re gonna get a waltz. [00:02:00] Oh, thrilling.
So, that’ll be
Jill Jaracz: interesting. Sliding sports are coming. Snowboard cross.
Alison Brown: Biathlon. Your, your pride and joy. Oh, I know, biathlon
Jill Jaracz: is all you
Alison Brown: need.
Lisa Riley Roche interview
Jill Jaracz: I’m so excited. Yes, exactly. But here’s the deal, as we have learned from past years, just because we’re getting into winter, that doesn’t mean we’re gonna have enough snow for winter sports.
So, uh, we wanted to talk a little bit about climate change and future Olympics, and to do that, we talked with Lisa Riley Roche, reporter at the Deseret News in Salt [00:02:30] Lake City. And the Olympics is one of Lisa’s regular news beats, and I will say, fangirled a little. Because we do see Lisa on, press calls-
Alison Brown: All
Jill Jaracz: the time
for the IOC. Yes, for the IOC, for the USOPC. She’s always there, and she’s, she’s always, uh, asking questions. And so, we were familiar with her work, and it’s really good stuff. And, uh, she covered the Salt Lake City 2002 Games and has been covering everything going on with the Utah [00:03:00] 2034 Games. We talked with her about climate, what IOC President Kirsty Coventry may change about the Winter Olympics, and some venue changes for Utah 2034.
Take a listen
Lisa Riley Roche, thank you so much for joining us today.
Lisa Riley Roche: Oh, happy to do it. It’s, it’s always fun to be around people who are excited about the Olympics.
Jill Jaracz: Winter sports is starting again. We’re coming off of Milano Cortina, which had funky snow- … I would say. You [00:03:30] know, it was no snow and then snow, and then for the Paralympics they really didn’t have much snow at all.
You’re in Salt Lake. Salt Lake’s hosting in 2034, and snowfall can be erratic, I understand, in Salt Lake City area. So when you have a bad snow year, what is the, tone around like, are we gonna have snow sports in 10 years, 15 years anymore?
Lisa Riley Roche: Well, [00:04:00] obviously, skiing is, is a very important part , of the Utah economy overall. Uh, the ski industry, brings in, a great deal of, of tourism to the state, and so it’s watched very closely for that reason, as well as obviously hosting the Olympics for a second time in 2034. Last year was not a great snow year, and there was a lot of concern about that.
But Olympic [00:04:30] organizers here will tell you that planning is going to be key, for dealing with whatever comes weather-wise in 2034. And this isn’t a new issue. back in 2002, there was concern, especially at the Soldier Hollow venue for, uh, cross-country sports. That’s at a very high altitude in an area that sometimes, gets warm enough that snow doesn’t stick [00:05:00] around as long as, folks would hope.
So they’ve learned over the years to save snow. basically, uh, back in 2002, what Fraser Bullock, who was the chief operating officer then under Mitt Romney, and today is the president, and, executive chair of the organizing committee for ’34. He told me what they did back in 2002 was a little experiment a year out from those games, and that [00:05:30] was basically collecting huge amounts of snow and storing it at a very cold, reservoir in the state, uh, near that, and being ready to truck it in if needed for, events that would happen at the same time a year later.
They were ready to do the same thing in 2002. Luckily, I don’t believe that was needed. But the idea [00:06:00] of setting aside snow and, uh, having it ready to truck in and put down for events is, is something that’s been around for a long time and is, has gotten better and better. Uh, they are already doing similar, things at the, Soldier Hollow venue now for events, for training, et cetera.
So there’s that. The other piece for the Olympics is the possibility of moving the start dates, and that, that might [00:06:30] actually be the, the easiest, fix to help, guarantee better snow, right? Is starting a, a week or so earlier with the Olympic Games, and that can move the Paralympics up, because the Paralympics are really where the snow becomes an issue, right?
there was that study out of a university in Toronto and another in Austria that the IOC commissioned that basically said [00:07:00] Sapporo is the only former Olympic host that would be able to effectively host both events by, I believe, 2080. Salt Lake, though, is in the clear through 2050, according to that report, although Soldier Hollow is one of those areas that were looked at more closely by that report.
A story I did interviewing one of the researchers at the University of Toronto talked about, maybe looking for another venue, [00:07:30] for cross-country sports in 2034 as, as a solution. But organizers believe that they, can handle whatever comes with this snow. And obviously, snowmaking’s a piece of that, too, but this idea of snow storage.
Uh, remember both, Sochi and, Beijing have hosted Winter Games, and neither of those are, are snow capitals, right? So i-it can be [00:08:00] done.
Jill Jaracz: we look back at history as well, and we’re looking back at Cortina 1956, and I think they had to truck in some snow there too to, fix bobsled runs and things like that.
Alison Brown: It’s not a new problem.
Jill Jaracz: No, not a new problem. What would be the difference then in using snow that’s been saved versus just making it?
why bother to save the snow when you could just make it?
Lisa Riley Roche: I think there’s a difference in the snow quality. N- and, and we’re getting into the area where, [00:08:30] where I lose my, my decades of expertise, right? Uh, but I do understand that, that snow quality is, is… You know, Utah, we have the greatest snow on Earth.
Just look at our license plates. it’s a, a, a very powdery, light snow, and it’s, it’s because of the, geographical configuration of the Great Salt Lake and our, our Wasatch Mountains, the Oquirrh Mountains, creating this, this, perfect winter storm for snow in Utah. [00:09:00] So our quality of snow is, is very, very good here.
and hopefully, by the way, it will be this, this winter, thanks to, the, uh, new weather pattern that, uh, we’re, we’re seeing, uh, in, in a very destructive way, sadly, around parts of the country. But, it’s supposed to, to bring a, a wet winter to us, at least a little later in the season according to the forecasts I’ve seen.
So fingers crossed.
Alison Brown: Yeah, the, the super El Niño.
Lisa Riley Roche: Yes. Uh- [00:09:30] Yes, not just an El Niño, right, but a super El Niño. A super
Alison Brown: El Niño.
Lisa Riley Roche: Yeah, so we’re, we’re excited about that. I, I noticed the ski industry’s already putting out, releases about, the great snow we we’re expecting. So, it’s one of those things though, right?
You just can’t predict. And the other piece of climate change that I find really interesting to think about is the impact on summer games, right? we tend to think of climate [00:10:00] change as having the more drastic impact on a winter games, right, because of snow. But extreme heat is, a big problem too.
So there may well be a time when the games’ timing is revisited from both the winter games perspective and the summer games perspective. I think the IOC has, has talked about that as something that needs to be examined in the future. And we’ve seen dates moved, [00:10:30] right? Uh, I was in Sydney in 2000 and And those games, started at a different time because of the, the flip in weather patterns down under.
So it’s not unheard of, but it’s, it’s just something that I think, like everything, the Olympics has to adapt to
Jill Jaracz: It’ll be interesting to see if they go back to like springtime again. I can’t imagine that’s easy to do in a television era or, or a streaming [00:11:00] era, but you know, you go back to when they first started and they started so early.
Lisa Riley Roche: Well, it, it’s interesting you say television streaming era, right? I mean, think how much that has changed. Right. We once had to watch games over broadcast, right? And now, you know, and when broadcasters wanted to show us. And if it was overnight, that’s when it was. And if it was, you know, tape delayed, we had to, you know- Mm-hmm
wait to watch it. But [00:11:30] now of course with streaming, there are many more opportunities and that may well change the, uh, idea that we have to be locked into certain timeframes. And, and I guess a big piece of that too, and again, we’re getting beyond my level of expertise and getting into the sports world, but, you gotta have time for all of the, um, run-ups to the games, right?
The qualifiers and, the world championships, all those things. you gotta have time for that [00:12:00] within a season. So yeah, it’s, it’s a complex problem, but at least it’s one that I think everyone acknowledges now is out there and they’re looking to deal with it. We’ll, we’ll see what happens. You know, games rotation is a part of that as well.
Jill Jaracz: You mentioned that Utah 30- 2034 potentially could change its dates. How likely do you think that’ll be, especially for the Paralympics since after what we just saw in Milano [00:12:30] Cortina?
Lisa Riley Roche: I am not sure how to, uh, set the odds on that.
I’m originally from Las Vegas, so that’s naturally what I think of, right? Is it 50/50? Is it 70/30? I, I don’t know. But one of the things that Utah has that it didn’t have in 2002, well, two things, right? Experience. they know what’s coming, they know what to expect, and they know what to anticipate [00:13:00] that, uh, they know what they don’t know, right?
they don’t know what the weather’s gonna be in ’34. There can be projections, et cetera, but no, they know that it’ll be something that can’t be 100% predicted ahead of time. But in a- in addition to that experience, they also have more time, not just because the games were awarded early, but because they’re not scrambling to, lock down venues or to build out facilities, to the level to host an [00:13:30] Olympics.
Sure there’s, plenty of, things to be done to, in terms of updates, in terms of, improvements. You know, shading at the bobsled track is one that’s always brought up here. You know, things that will help not just with the Olympic Games themselves, but also with hosting other major events, as well as just the training and, you know, recreational use that, that goes on at these venues, at the sliding track virtually year-round, right?
They [00:14:00] send people down on concrete. I’ve done that a couple times. I do not recommend, but, you know, uh- … maybe people are more daring than, than I am. so with this additional time, they can, they can study the impacts of that and, and obviously the TV contracts.
Uh, so much stuff figures into that, right? It’s not just, uh, will the IOC approve it or not? It’s will it work for TV? Will it work for the, the schedules of the, of the [00:14:30] IF, qualifiers? Will it work for, uh, all the countries sending their athletes? Uh, there’s just so much that goes in, into a decision like that.
But they have time and the experience to use that time wisely.
Jill Jaracz: Unlike, I would say, Alps 2030, which is-
Lisa Riley Roche: Yikes. …
Jill Jaracz: has huge leadership issues because they just lost a, another CEO or head of the games. Yeah. And they are running out of time it seems like. [00:15:00]
Lisa Riley Roche: They’re losing venues. I mean, it’s just… They’re, I guess, moving venues, but I mean, they moved from one part of the France to another with the ice sports, right?
So that’s, yeah. There’s a lot going on there for sure.
Jill Jaracz: fascinating to watch. Now I can’t imagine- I know … it’s pleasant to experience Ah. And be a part of, but it’s fascinating to watch and see how are they gonna pull it off. Because even though they, have experience and they have world-class [00:15:30] venues, at least on the snow side, it’s still gonna be a tough one, I think.
Lisa Riley Roche: Yeah. Yeah. And it, it’s gonna be interesting to see once, those games are held, how the folks in Nice feel about having lost that opportunity, to host ice sports. Because that w- that was a really interesting, um, image, right? Is you have the storied Alp skiing venues in the north, and then sending ice down to, the ice sports down [00:16:00] to land of palm trees and beaches and You know, Negronis, uh, by the water.
Uh I just, I just thought that was- Oh, it could’ve been … that was just a, a a great juxtaposition, right? I, I think it showed off the French expertise in, in hosting big events and, and what France has to offer, right? In, in terms of, uh, tourism and, all of that. But, uh, Listen, you, you guys have been around long enough to know, right?
That they’ll, [00:16:30] they’ll pull it off somehow, and everyone, everyone ahead of it will be anxious, but, uh, once it gets going, everyone will be excited. So.
Jill Jaracz: That’s true. But it would’ve been interesting in Nice, now that you think. Yeah. I mean, when you, when you said it like that, and then it made me think of the NHL, National Hockey League-
Lisa Riley Roche: Yeah.
Yeah …
Jill Jaracz: pushing into all these warmer cities- Yeah … to show that you can have hockey anywhere. That’s, it’s true. Exactly. All you need is, is, is a- Exactly … a, a rink, basically.
Lisa Riley Roche: Yeah. I, I’ve [00:17:00] heard that from some of the, uh, Olympians that I’ve talked to over the, over the years about some of these, these venues, right?
That, for example, the, um, temporary ice that was used in Milan, area, right? for some events. the, the temporary, uh, speed skating oval specifically that was used, right? In, for the Milan Cortina Games. at first I thought, “Well, that’s a missed opportunity to have a lasting legacy of an oval for training and, [00:17:30] and recreational use,” and maybe, you know, exposing young people to a sport they wouldn’t have access to other-otherwise, uh, as well as hosting future major events.
But at the same time, I was told by an Olympian here, “No, this was a great opportunity to show that this isn’t a sport that has to come with all this expensive baggage.” You can put together a temporary venue and have this great event, right? This great opportunity to [00:18:00] showcase your sport without committing to this long-term investment of upkeep and maintenance and all of that.
So, it, it’s a different way of looking at sport, I think. Uh, obviously the Olympics have evolved a great deal since 2002 when, when the goal was to, get permanent facilities built. I mean, that, that was the whole Utah bid back in the day. Uh, USOPC required that, and, and I’m probably telling you [00:18:30] guys things you, you already know, but, but maybe some of your listeners don’t.
The USO- O- it was the USOC at the time. Paralympics had not, uh, come on board as part of the, um, National, uh, Olympic Committee here in
the US. But the- USOC wanted m- another set of winter sports facilities, uh, in the United States that were of a quality to, to train and, and ready Team USA athletes s-specifically, but [00:19:00] also to host events and things like that. So they wanted a speed skating oval, and they wanted a, a sliding track. And that was a requirement to bid to be the US candidate to host in, future games.
And, and that was, uh, the case for ’98, which Utah bid for, and lost to Nagano, and obviously 2002. And so tax- Utah taxpayers, voted to agree to set aside money [00:19:30] to build those, and that money was repaid out of the profits of the games. But that’s not the model that we see now with the IOC, right?
I mean, they seem much more interested in sustainability. And so Utah went from being a, a prime example of that original model to now a prime example of the current model, which is reuse what you have.
Jill Jaracz: But
Lisa Riley Roche: also- … full circle here.
Jill Jaracz: Uh, y- yeah, but also Utah made it work, [00:20:00] and they made sure they had plans in place to keep reusing stuff.
The- Yes … other, the flip side of building is you get something like Athens, who- Mm … didn’t, who built a, a ton and didn’t have a plan to reuse anything. And I think maybe that’s where the, the- Sure … lack of foresight comes in, and nobody thinks- Sure … about what happens after the cauldron’s out, and Utah’s one of the places that made it work.
But I would imagine with the directive of having a training place [00:20:30] dictated in a way by the USOC at the time, that ensured legacy plans.
Lisa Riley Roche: that’s an excellent point, right? That, that USOPC helped, helped direct that, and direct their success. But even, even with that, you know, they lose money, and they’ve had to do, do a lot of creative things to try to, try to make all that work.
a big piece of the success was the [00:21:00] money left over from the 2002 Games, uh, being put into a, a, a legacy fund. That’s, you know, obviously, there’s earnings off of that. But even, even with that, the goal now, though, for ’34 is to finally have a big enough legacy fund that the facilities can once and for all be self-sustaining going forward.
Utah lawmakers over the years have [00:21:30] invested more than $90 million into, upkeep at those, those facilities, and the idea there is that they’re being kept up not for an Olympic bid, not for elite athlete competitions, but for kind of the ongoing use, which includes recreational use, um, as well as athlete training.
We have, plans for a hotel, for example, going in [00:22:00] at the, um, uh, Utah Olympic Park, where the sliding track and the ski jumps are located. And so those, uh, revenues will help, offset the ongoing cost of those facilities, as, as well as all the other things they do. They do zip lines. They do recreational rides.
They do– They have ski hills now, for training. there’s just a, there’s just a lot going on to try to make those facilities [00:22:30] continue to work financially. And, and obviously it, it paid off with this future games coming. But, uh, with the idea that there might be even more games ahead for Utah and these facilities will have to be kept up for a long, long time, to international standards, there’s, again, this hope that another games can secure that, that funding going [00:23:00] forward.
Jill Jaracz: It’s interesting to hear that they, the, the facilities, they’re being used, but they still need funding to maintain their standards. Is it the standard levels that are really hard to, keep up with, or we’re not getting enough people in the venues, or even though we add zip lines and summer bobsled rides, it’s still like we can’t make the price point high enough to pay for that, or is it something else?
Lisa Riley Roche: They’re expensive [00:23:30] facilities to maintain is, is I think the bottom line there. I mean, you think about the refrigeration alone that goes into maintaining an oval or maintaining a sliding track. Um, you think about just the wear and tear on a, on a ski jump, uh, over the years. And, and the ski jump at the Olympic Park is used, uh, summer and winter, right?
It has a special, surface that allows jumpers to, uh, to [00:24:00] train in the summer, kind of almost like a, an AstroTurf, right? you’ve got the ski jumping pool, uh, that’s used in, in the summer as, as well as, as a way, especially for aerialists to, to practice their, their skills. winter sports facilities c- can be really expensive to maintain.
Um, just the, a- again, the refrigeration and the wear and tear, just make it really, uh, [00:24:30] difficult to keep up without a good s- revenue stream.
Alison Brown: I wanna talk about the rotating hosts idea. So do you wanna just explain a little bit about what the idea is of this, the rotating hosts for Winter Olympics?
Lisa Riley Roche: Sure. the idea is that with Winter Games, there’s only so many places in the world, that are able to host a Winter Games in [00:25:00] terms of having, you know, the, the obviously the ski hills, having, you know, access to what it takes for the other venues to be put in place, whether they’re there already and, and, uh, being maintained or whether they need to be built.
And with the idea of sustainability, you don’t wanna necessarily add a ton of new sliding tracks or ski jumps or, uh, speed skating ovals, for example, uh, that have a more specialized use [00:25:30] necessarily. so you’ve already got a limited number of places, and you’re trying to discourage other places from investing in facilities that, that as, as you mentioned earlier, may not be able to be maintained going forward, and just fall into disrepair and disuse.
That isn’t really a, a benefit, to those communities and certainly not to the sporting world, right? In terms of having competition [00:26:00] sites and training places all the way down to building up the next generation of young athletes, right? By having a place where they can try sports out. So you need to recognize with that limited number of hosts, how do you incentivize them to keep, uh, those facilities up and keep trying for an Olympics?
Well, in Utah’s case, it, took, uh, more than a decade of bidding to get a second games, of [00:26:30] serious bidding, right? There was talk right after 2002 of trying again, but it wasn’t until 2012 that that bid was more or less formally launched by our then-governor. so it, it’s a big investment in community resources, community efforts to, to get a games.
So this idea of rotation’s been floated. Now, what that would look like, no one really knows. No, uh, there’s all kinds of speculation that you would have a, a [00:27:00] list of permanent hosts, and you would have a set amount of time between their, games, so every, you know, 12 years or whatever, you would, you would count on, on being a host again, and so you would have that preparation built into your, preparations for, for the current games going forward.
I’ve been told by IOC officials that in fact, right now there’s sort of a de facto rotation in place. Again, because of that combination of [00:27:30] the, climate issues with finding places that are suitable to host and with having, this push for sustainability and not encouraging cities to step forward and build a bunch of stuff that they’re not going to be able to, to keep in place.
So it’s something that’s out there, but the fact that the IOC pretty much has Winter Games sites locked up through probably 2038 with, with Switzerland [00:28:00] being, um, I forget, what was the term they used? You know, Utah was a preferred host before it became a, Designated host, right? But they, uh, they basically said only Switzerland is in the mix for 2038 until a certain point in time.
I think it’s coming up in the next couple years. And if everything’s going well, they’re gonna be the host. So with, with all, with all that in place, right? having the Alps, having [00:28:30] Utah further out, having, a very likely host for 2038, there isn’t a big rush at the IOC, I think, to, to look at rotating, hosts.
Of course, here in Utah, our current governor, uh, Spencer Cox, has talked about how he would love to, to see that happen for Utah. Uh, certainly, the bid committee and then the organizing committee have, have talked about how much they would love that to be the case. But it’s still a decision that, that would have to be made, by the larger [00:29:00] Utah community, whether that’s something they really would wanna do going forward.
But with the kind of polling numbers we’ve seen over the years at the Deseret News, around 80% support for the games, I’m pretty sure that they would formally decide to go forward with any kind of rotation scheme the IOC could dream up. So, so we’ll see what that looks like.
But a- again, IOC, officials have told me that i- in effect, there is that de facto rotation [00:29:30] system already in place, because there’s only so many places they can go. Well, maybe what might be different in the future, could be these combined, urban and, mountain bids like we saw with Milan-Cortina, right?
New York has come up with a, with that idea for a future Olympic bid. So, you know, New York City being a site of, ice sports, Madison Square Garden, et cetera, all, all of the greatest hits, in [00:30:00] New York City combined with ski mountains. and of course Lake Placid with, all of the, the venues, uh, the sliding track, et cetera, that they have there.
So we’ll, we’ll see. We’ll see what things look like in the, in the future. I mean, Utah back– It was Salt Lake City Olympics in 2002. It’s the Utah Olympics in 2034, at least the way it’s being framed by the organizing committee here. it’s the same model though. [00:30:30] one central location for the athletes.
at Athlete Village is the same place where the opening and closing ceremonies are held, so that kind of anchors the games, and all of the venues being an hour out. I mean, that’s, it was once the ideal model for a Winter Games, and now it’s really unique, right? I don’t know that we’re gonna see another Lillehammer anytime soon.
Alison Brown: Though we would love to.
Jill Jaracz: or maybe Sweden. We- [00:31:00]
Lisa Riley Roche: Oh, poor Sweden. Poor Sweden. I mean, that was so hard to see, you know? It was such
Alison Brown: a good bid.
Lisa Riley Roche: And then just to be, shut out, Yeah. I, I think that was really tough for them, but, but they have had trouble in Sweden with public support in the past, so.
Jill Jaracz: Yeah, that’s always a doozy on, on getting those guarantees. Um, you know. Doozy
Lisa Riley Roche: is such a great word
Alison Brown: at the Olympics, right? So many, so many ways to use that word. [00:31:30] So many doozies.
Jill Jaracz: do you think, I mean, if we’re, we’re talking rotating host, what does something in Asia look like as a potential rotating host?
Beyond the fact that Sapporo is gonna be the one that has the snow. But I mean, Beijing did build a whole lot of stuff, and I know the goal was- True … to grow winter sports there, but-
Lisa Riley Roche: True …
Jill Jaracz: I mean, they’ve got new facilities. Do you think they’d ever go back to Beijing for winter?
Lisa Riley Roche: That, that’s a really good question because, and, and I think that, [00:32:00] that’s something, that will be really interesting to watch under the IOC’s new leadership, is what the relationship looks like with Russia, with China, right?
Two countries that were willing to spend whatever it took to make a game successful, and in Beijing’s case, make both a summer and a winter games successful. in Russia’s case, turn a, summer resort into a, a winter sports, capital for Russia, I guess. What that [00:32:30] relationship looks like going forward may very well inform whether or not they would be part of a, of future games.
Japan was a really interesting bid, this, last time, right? Uh, against Salt Lake. we had Vancouver, we, we had, Japan, we had, Salt Lake all going for 2030, and then, you know, all of the, the problems with public [00:33:00] support in Vancouver, and then s- saw the same thing, in Japan.
So it’s going to be interesting. And I think that’s probably one of the issues with having rotating games is maybe you have a, rather than have one representative of a, a region. I mean, for example, North America, would you really want just a US city or would you want a Canadian city as well?
And then [00:33:30] what about something like the, the New York effort? would that be something that could be considered? I mean, m- maybe a, a rotation of future games is having that set list of trustworthy hosts when it comes to producing snow and, and facilities, et cetera, but also having some flexibility to look outside of that and go to some of these, go to something new or [00:34:00] go to something, that maybe, someplace that maybe hosted it in the past but is now combining with a, a more suitable, in terms of climate or facility or both, co-host.
Like again, like we saw in Mo- Milan-Cortina. I mean, that was a, a really interesting model, especially for Winter Games, which if you try to concentrate all those facilities can be really difficult and expensive for some places. So spreading it out the way they [00:34:30] did, showed that, uh, the Winter Games don’t have to be in one place.
But It w- it was also an interesting experience, right? Were, were both of you there, or…?
Jill Jaracz: Yes. Yes. Well, and then we couldn’t get to… Forget biathlon. Forget biathlon, forget Cortina, um-
Lisa Riley Roche: Yeah. Yeah, exactly …
Jill Jaracz: you know- We couldn’t get to any- It was, it was hard for coverage. Yeah. And, and I mean, it didn’t, in a way, I, I don’t wanna say it didn’t matter [00:35:00] because people weren’t, were watching on a screen more so than they were there.
But you did really feel that if you planned well and had the means to take a day off for a travel day, which we couldn’t take a day off for a travel day.
Lisa Riley Roche: Right.
Jill Jaracz: And, uh, that just meant that fans got to see a little bit more than we did in a way, but we got to see it- Yeah … from a different angle. It was, it was really interesting.
And then, you know, when it did start to snow in the mountains, uh, you’d get the [00:35:30] notifications of, you know, “Please don’t come.” Exactly. Avalanche warning, you know? So- Exactly. Mountains are
Lisa Riley Roche: closed … it,
Jill Jaracz: no, we don’t. Yeah. Yeah, no, we don’t come. Yeah. So that was, it was frustrating. It was, I, I think the idea of spreading them out and not building was good to try.
it worked in some aspects, and it wasn’t successful in others, I think. It, I mean, athlete experience was not great for some athletes because they didn’t get the- Isolated … the, yeah, the isolation- Yeah … and all that, so.
Lisa Riley Roche: Yeah.
Jill Jaracz: You know.
Lisa Riley Roche: No, I,
Jill Jaracz: [00:36:00] I- Pluses
Lisa Riley Roche: and minuses. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I felt that, that too, being in Milan, right?
We, we had thought surely we can figure out a way to get to Cortina, and, uh- Surely there’s a way. Yeah. Yeah, you, you know, we’re spread out with that lousy, lousy route, yeah. I mean, once we get there, it, we heard it all right ahead and thought, “Well, once we get there, we’ll, we’ll figure it out. We’ll, even if we rent a, a, a car or, and a driver, whatever, we’ll, we’ll get there.”
And we wanted to be there for, [00:36:30] for Lindsey Vonn’s,
Jill Jaracz: right.
Lisa Riley Roche: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, because Lindsey is a, is a, very important part of, or, or was an important part of the bid and is an important part of the games going forward, right? She’s part of the, um- executive committee that’s basically running the games and, and an important athlete voice for 2034.
So, and Fraser Bullock was going to be there in Cortina to, to see her s- her ski that day, and, and so we just figured, “Well, we’ll get there.” [00:37:00] No.
Alison Brown: No.
Lisa Riley Roche: It just, uh, I was there with, a photographer as well as our, editor of, of the newspaper. She’s also, leading o- out on our Olympic coverage, Sarah Jane Weaver, and Sarah is great at logistics. she can just do anything, but she, she could not make that work, so- No … if she couldn’t, it could not be done.
Jill Jaracz: Well, that makes it
Lisa Riley Roche: even better … and I just felt like I had one Olympic experience where somebody else had a completely [00:37:30] different Olympic experience- Yes
at the same games, and it helped me understand a little bit how difficult it must have been for the athletes. You talked about them being isolated. I think that’s, that’s a really good word. maybe that, that’s great if you wanna focus on your performance and all of that, but the Olympics, I have always…
I mean, that’s what makes it different from a series of World Cups happening at the same time, right? It’s, it’s the Olympics. Everyone gets together, and then they go out and [00:38:00] compete in their individual sports, and then they come together again at the end, hopefully with a better understanding of each other and, and all of that, right?
And, and, uh, what was interesting to me is I was there for 10 days. we were there to cover some of the lead-up, obviously, to the games with the torch relay and the involvement of some of our prominent Utahns who are supporting the games financially here, et cetera.
And the experience I had there versus the [00:38:30] experience I had when I got home and started watching them on TV, completely different. Completely different. And realizing that for the fans, right, that you guys, serve so well they saw something I didn’t see in Milan, right? They, they saw, you know, these quaint mountain villages.
They saw these unique, you know, mountain areas where other sports were being held and wow, it was, yeah, it was very different. And, you know, it goes to our discussion of [00:39:00] rotating the games, right? What do we want that experience to be in the future? and with the way social media and, streaming and new platforming of, content is changing so rapidly, who knows?
you know, maybe everyone will just sit in a room with, with goggles on and watch the games that way while snow blows in or it gets icy cold from the bottom. I don’t know. I,
Jill Jaracz: [00:39:30] I don’t know, Lisa. Yesterday I read an article about virtual taekwondo and, people competing in that. Yeah, they wear goggles and then they just kind of stand and they have a whole bunch of sensors on, and then it’s basically- Yeah
kick, kick, kick, kick, kick. And, you know, it, uh, is that a sport after a point? I don’t know. Then this is the games. Yeah.
Lisa Riley Roche: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it goes to the whole esport thing, right?
Jill Jaracz: Right.
Lisa Riley Roche: Yeah. We’ll see where that goes.
Jill Jaracz: Exactly. Yeah. Talking about changes at the IOC, what do you think of [00:40:00] some of the changes that Kirsty Coventry has implemented? Getting rid of esports or putting that on the back burner, putting Youth Olympic Games on the back burner, the whole Fit for the Future, let’s examine the sports program thing.
she’s really shaking things up.
Lisa Riley Roche: No, she has. She has. It’s, it’s been a– And, and I think that’s what the, the membership wanted in electing her, right? They wanted that kind of generational, um, shakeup. I think that, that’s a good, a good word. [00:40:30] The under, Thomas Bach, the IOC had been very much focused on being a force for good in the world, right?
for lack of a better way to describe it. Uh, working with UN, working with, with other groups to spread sport as a way to promote peace, as a, as a way to promote not necessarily politics, right? I mean, that’s certainly never been, been a stated goal of [00:41:00] the IOC. but in a way it was, right? Let’s open China up to the world.
let’s bring sport there. and let’s do it again, even though there’s a lot more concern now about the ability of, sport to make the kinds of changes you would want to see in a place, that was accused of repressing uh, some of its peoples, right? it seems like she’s really moved away from that, and she’s talked [00:41:30] about protecting the Olympic brand in a time when the world is really changing.
And I think that’s what she’s trying to do with these moves, is strip away some of the things that have raised concerns about the IOC and maybe it becoming political. let’s, let’s move away from that. Let’s, let’s get back to basics. the whole idea of [00:42:00] being fit for the future in a, in large part is kind of refocusing on those, those basics, of sport, and at the same time accommodating big changes, right?
And y- e-everyone focused on the, transgender issue as part of Fit for the Future, and rightfully so. Big change there. But there were also changes in terms of how they are going to market and how they’re going to [00:42:30] work with, NOCs and OCOGs going forward to create categories and free up categories. We already, we already see them doing that more quickly in a place like LA, right?
Where being a U.S. Games is very much dependent on, uh, revenues from, private sources, specifically domestic sponsors, being a major one, right? And so they’ve, they’ve freed up categories for [00:43:00] them to go out and sell and generate revenue from. So there’s a lot of, of that, I think, going on at the IOC now, kind of, kind of that refocusing on kind of the core mission.
and then we’ll see where it goes from there, though. You know, earlier we talked about the relationship the new administration will have with China and Russia going forward. You know, will they be seen as places that you’ll want to come back to? because [00:43:30] again, heavy government investment and, uh, a willingness to do basically what it takes to, to, make a games happen, even in a place with no snow.
So We’ll see. but I think there’s a lot of excitement, May- maybe excitement’s not the word. I think there’s a lot of interest in what the IOC looks like going forward. and so, Christy Coventry, she’ll likely be, uh, still [00:44:00] president when Utah hosts.
So I know here especially, people are watching, watching closely to see what she wants the IOC to look like under her leadership and what direction she wants to, to take it in.
Jill Jaracz: Uh, it’s interesting because she has talked about streamlining the games, and definitely in terms of summer- Yes … Brisbane will not have as many sports as LA does, and that’s before even [00:44:30] adding five.
2030 took out Nordic combined, but then they added in, they added back ski mo and added in free riding.
Lisa Riley Roche: Yeah, yeah.
Jill Jaracz: Do you– I mean, Utah 2034 is gonna be a lot bigger than Salt Lake 2020-02, but do you see them adding more sports or even adding in, adding back Nordic combined?
Lisa Riley Roche: I think the, idea here [00:45:00] is, uh, the games are already gonna be f- uh, I think it’s around 40% bigger, uh, than in 2002 just because of all the additions made.
Uh, some for gender equity, for example. but I think the idea here is let’s see how free riding and ski mo do, and, maybe they’ll be included. Let’s see what happens with Nordic combined, and possibly include that. But I’m not sure there’ll necessarily be [00:45:30] any new sports promoted here. I’ve, talked to, uh, Olympic organizers here, and there seems to be, at least the possibility being held out that, “No, we’ll, we’re good.
We’re good. We like what, the French Alps did, and, and we’ll stick with that, thanks.” of course, a lot can change between now and, and when those, those decisions are made. But, but ski mo, for example, ski mountaineering, not a huge sport in the US, but it’s [00:46:00] really central, uh, centralized here in, in, uh, uh, the canyons of the Wasatch Mountains.
There’s a lot of training going on. Obviously, there was the big international competition held here. And I talked with the, uh, the leader of, of the Ski Mo IF, International Federation, and she just raved about the Utah, competition site, and especially the training site up in, some remote area of one of the, uh, Wasatch Mountain [00:46:30] canyons, about how they just loved being able to go out there and, and train and, So we’ll, you know, I, I think ski mountaineering has a, has a very good chance of being here in 2034.
again, let’s see what, what happens in the French Alps. And, freeride, that’ll be interesting to see. and then Nordic combined, we’ve just gotta see if, if the sport can come up with the level of support that, uh, the [00:47:00] IOC wants to see. And they, again, a lot of time, uh, organizers are, are watching that, to see what it’s gonna look like when the time comes for decisions to be made here
Jill Jaracz: Yeah, it’s all interesting.
And then, of course, Alps 2030 also added Synchro-Nine, which- Right. Right … seems like is a great fit and also brings up the gender equity. But it also is another figure skating sport [00:47:30] that already is on a rink that typically shares with short track. So how do you fit in another few days of competition or all behind the scenes, all those practice sessions?
Lisa Riley Roche: E-exactly. Well, with practice sessions, I think there are enough, rinks available, in the area to accommodate that. but yeah, that’s definitely a, question, that Utah organizers are gonna have to, have to look at. And [00:48:00] I, I think we’ll see how that does, right? If, if it’s wildly popular with, with viewers, for example, I think the likelihood of it getting added are, is, is much stronger, right?
But if it’s just another skating event that gets kind of lost between the ones that, that everyone, you know, traditionally watches and loves, right? It might be a different story. I d- not, not sure there. Uh, you know here that, of course, [00:48:30] that, um, the venues have switched for figure skating and hockey, the main venues, with the addition of a, an NHL team here in Utah, the Utah Mammoth.
tusks up, as we like to say here in Utah now. they, are, owned by the, same couple, uh, that own the, Utah Jazz now, and the Utah Jazz play at the Delta Center. And now the Utah Mammoth play there, [00:49:00] and that will be the site of, hockey in 2034. it had been the site of figure skating.
It’s sort of the premier venue downtown, and there, there’s a lot of remodeling going on to accommodate a NHL team, as well as an effort to redo the whole downtown area to make it more entertainment friendly, et cetera. All that’ll be done before ’34. and so the Mavericks Center, which is, a [00:49:30] big, venue out in, uh, West Valley City, a suburb of Salt Lake City, is now the site of, uh, skating.
And when the Stars on Ice group came through, that’s where they performed. And so I, I made a point of asking all of them, you know, what they thought of that as an Olympic venue, and they were all like, “Well,” and they looked around, and it’s kinda dark, and it’s kind of smaller, and it’s,
um, in the middle of [00:50:00] a, a sub- like I said, a suburban community. and they were like, “Yeah, sure. This’ll be great.” Uh- … and, and I, you know what? I’m sure it will be. Uh, it does get a lot of community support, but it, but it is a, it is a different looking venue. and so there, there are improvements planned for that arena as well, between now and 2034, so we’ll see.
But, but yeah, that’s already a switch up. But we do have, like, the Peaks Ice Arena in [00:50:30] Provo, a city, to the south of Salt Lake City, a major city, site of BYU, uh, for all the football fans out there. and, also, the Weber, the Weber ice sheet that was used for curling in, uh, 2002 is no longer an Olympic venue. It’s part of the, uh, will no doubt be part of the, the training and, and maybe even some preliminary competitions. I’m not sure. but, yeah, curling has [00:51:00] moved to the Salt Palace Convention Center, which is downtown right by the Delta Center.
So there’ll be a temporary ice facility put in there for curling, and the reason there was, uh, accommodating more seats, basically selling more tickets, so. the Weber, facility was limited in the number of s- of seats that could be added in- Interesting … in the amount of ticket revenue that could be raised, right?
So.
Jill Jaracz: And that’s important.
Lisa Riley Roche: I know. You [00:51:30] know- Especially in the US … it’s super important. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta make, you gotta make the money and, and these Olympics have a $4 billion price tag overall, you know, when you count the, the IOC- or the US, Olympic and Paralympic Committee share of, revenues that need to be paid, et cetera.
yeah, it’s a lot of money- A lot of money … that needs to, needs to come in.
Alison Brown: That’s a, that’s a lot of tusks, Lisa.
Lisa Riley Roche: [00:52:00] Exactly. Exactly.
Jill Jaracz: Well, Lisa Riley Roche, thank you so much for joining us and talking Utah 2034 and the Olympic movement. It’s been great having you on.
Lisa Riley Roche: Oh, it’s been great talking to you both. It’s, it’s really fun to, spend time with people who are excited about the Olympics. You know, we are here in Utah, and we consider ourselves Olympic City, and, looking forward to doing it again, and as our governor likes to say, and again and again and again.
[00:52:30] So, uh, thank you both. I appreciate it.
Jill Jaracz: Thank you so much, Lisa. You can read more of Lisa’s work at deseret.com. And we’ve got other Olympic news because as we are recording early, not much happened over the weekend. I will say
Alison Brown: that. It was quiet. It
Germany picks a city to host a future Games
Jill Jaracz: was quiet. That’s, that’s good. That’s good. But Lisa mentioned that Switzerland was in one of the dialogue stages for hosting the 2038 Winter Olympics, and then this weekend, dw.com reported on, Saturday, September 26th, that the German [00:53:00] Olympic Sports Confederation announced that it will put forth Munich as a Summer Olympics host for 2036, 2040, or 2044.
And, uh, Sports Minister Ronald Rauhe said his preference would be 2040 because that would be the 50th anniversary of the reunification of Germany. But really, they’d do any of those dates.
Alison Brown: W- w- wait a second. We’re up to the 50th anniversary of reunification? Like, we’re even looking at that? I mean, I know it’s- Yeah, we’re looking at it
14 years away, but it’s [00:53:30] But that’s like even on the, the horizon. Wow, that’s amazing.
Jill Jaracz: It is amazing. And Munich hopefully would reuse the venues it has. It has a big Olympia Park, which is quite nice, and that would be good. I mean, it’ll be interesting to see what happens with this.
Alison Brown: I mean we know of course the tragedy of Munich, but Munich brought us a lot of wonderful things like a mascot and the color designs and some just really [00:54:00] beautiful elements that have continued throughout.
So I’d love to see Munich do it again.
Jill Jaracz: It’ll be interesting. And we don’t always talk about potential bidders because like India says, “Oh, we’re bidding,” and we’ve seen stuff from like Indonesia and some other Southeast Asian countries. But this one seemed like a big possibility that it could happen.
Alison Brown: And they’re giving themselves over for three different choices.
Right. They’re basically saying, “Whenever you want us, we are here for you.” [00:54:30] “We don’t care. We have a preference, but we really don’t care. We will be ready whenever you call.”
Jill Jaracz: Which is- Like the- … a- another interesting way to do things.
Alison Brown: Right. It’s kind of like the worst girlfriend though. Like, “I’m here whenever you want me.”
No, demand. Make demands, Munich. Say 2040 is it. You’re worth more than that.
Jill Jaracz: Well, we shall see. I think we’re seeing with Brisbane [00:55:00] 2032 especially, having such a long time-
Alison Brown: Right …
Jill Jaracz: doesn’t seem to help.
Alison Brown: It doesn’t seem to help and it almost seems to hurt because you have a long time for controversies.
Mm-hmm. And you have a long time for controversies to develop and dwell and people to get fired up about it without the excitement of the games actually coming.
Jill Jaracz: Right.
Alison Brown: I mean because we’re six years out, so they would just have been awarded to Brisbane in, in- Yeah … last year. [00:55:30] ‘Cause usually it was, it was a seven-year, lead out.
But we’ve had Brisbane forever. Yes. And LA we had for 10 years. So these long time, like you said, doesn’t seem to improve their preparations as we, you know, when we talked to Jason Sydney, they’ve got tons of stuff that still need to happen in- Right … in LA even though they had 10 years. And it just gives more time for people to get up in arms about it, which rightfully so if, if things are going wrong.
Jill Jaracz: [00:56:00] Right. You need time to dig into something. But, I mean sometimes it feels like 10 years- Not that in the space that there’s enough time, but there might not be like, “We can’t do this until X date.”
Alison Brown: Right.
Jill Jaracz: You know? And there’s so much of that. I mean, you can’t… I mean, what, what kind of temporary venue company would lock in prices 10 years a- ahead of time, right?
Alison Brown: Exactly. So- And put things, start putting things up ahead of time. I mean, there’s only so much you can do when it’s a temporary venue. It’s temporary, that’s the point. Right. You can’t put it [00:56:30] up 10 years ahead of time.
Jill Jaracz: Yeah. And, and for Brisbane, that’s just given journalists the time to find the crocodiles in the rowing venue river.
Alison Brown: You know, they had crocodile… We talked about crocodiles when we talked about Sydney. That was another situation. So this is not a new problem. I mean, it’s Australia. All kinds of terrifying animals exist in Australia to kill you.
Jill Jaracz: [00:57:00] Yes. Yes. So it, it’s like, well, is this the Zika of Brisbane? Okay. Are we not even to the Zika of Brisbane?
Alison Brown: Right. It’s the crocodiles. But I mean, come on. That’s, that’s not a joke that there are crocodiles in the rowing venue.
Jill Jaracz: But I wonder if
Alison Brown: it- We’re, we’re gonna lose our rowers …
Jill Jaracz: I wonder if it’s like they’re doing their thing in their part of the river, and we’re gonna do our thing over here, and we’ll just respect each other’s space.
Alison Brown: Are you saying that the [00:57:30] crocodiles are Olympic fans?
Jill Jaracz: Maybe. Maybe they have-
Alison Brown: They’ll just show up to spectate?
Jill Jaracz: Chomp. They’ll chomp in time with the rowing.
Alison Brown: Wouldn’t it be horrible, though, if somebody actually, not if somebody got hurt. That would be horrific. But if like a boat got hit.
Jill Jaracz: Oh, man.
Alison Brown: You know, that would just be wild.
What happened in the race? Talk about a story we could definitely tell in the history episode someday. “Oh, yeah. This [00:58:00] rowing event got disrupted because one of the boats hit a crocodile.”
Jill Jaracz: Right. Or a crocodile swam underneath and then came up and surfaced, and then the boat got tipped.
Alison Brown: Right. Or the crocodile won.
Jill Jaracz: That would be hilarious if they decided to race, too. I see you.
Alison Brown: If they just skim along next to them and cross the finish line and, like, set off the, the beep. ‘Cause, you know, in ra- in, in rowing they have that beeping when you cross.
Jill Jaracz: [00:58:30] Yes.
Alison Brown: Yes. And a crocodile crosses first and sets it off.
Jill Jaracz: That would be funny. what to do then, huh?
Alison Brown: Who won? Who won?
Jill Jaracz: Oh, well, listeners, you might win when it comes to that, that’s for sure.
Alison Brown: That’s absolutely the case.
Jill Jaracz: All right, that is gonna do it for this episode. Next week we’re going back to Cortina 1956.
Alison Brown: I’m ready. H- hockey. I’m always ready for historical [00:59:00] hockey.
Jill Jaracz: Oh, this is a good tournament. And, and a companion to that will be an Olympic True Crime newsletter.
So if you don’t get our newsletter, it’s weekly, it’s free, it’s at flamealivepod.substack.com. it’s been kinda interesting going, “Oh, hey, what happened?”
Alison Brown: Well, I’m excited ’cause I don’t know the story yet.
Jill Jaracz: Well, yeah, so this’ll be a lot of fun. So, be on the lookout for that, and, uh, we’ll see you again next [00:59:30] week.
Thank you so much for listening.
Alison Brown: And until next time, keep the flame alive.