We’re delving into the sport of wheelchair tennis with American Charlie Cooper, who’s currently ranked #2 in the world for junior wheelchair singles. He talks with Alison about the sport and his plans to qualify for LA 2028.
Plus, we also talk with Dr. Thomas Rietveld, a researcher at the Peter Harrison Centre for Disability Sport at Loughborough University in the UK. Dr. Rietveld’s PhD thesis examined wheelchair tennis chairs, so he answers our burning questions about tennis chairs that we had after Paris 2024.
Milano Cortina 2026 has unveiled its art posters. This is a set of 10 works (five Olympic, five Paralympic) created by emerging Italian artists. Check them out here.
This past week was Olympic Day, and the International Olympic Committee celebrated by officially instating Kirsty Coventry as the new president of the organization.
Plus, we have updates from Team Keep the Flame Alive – TKFLASTAN has been busy!
Thanks so much for listening, and until next time, keep the flame alive!
Photo courtesy of Charlie Cooper.
TRANSCRIPT
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397-Wheelchair Tennis with Charlie Cooper
Jill Jaracz: Hello and welcome to another episode of Keep, the Flame Alive, the podcast for fans of the Olympics and Paralympics. If you love the games, we are the show for you. I am your host, Jill Jers, joined as always by my lovely co-host, Alison Brown. Alison, hello. How are you?
Alison Brown: How are you feeling in our new Olympic era?
Jill Jaracz: I, I don’t know. I have a lot of feels.
Alison Brown: I know. So the Tebo era has closed Tomo. Bach has ended his presidency. Kirsty Coventry is now our president and we don’t know how to feel about this.
Jill Jaracz: I know. I mean, on the one hand it’s exciting to have new leadership. I am grateful. It’s not the right word, but it’s nice that Teebo recognized like, my time is over and it’s time to pass the torch on because.
It’s refreshing, I guess you would say, because there are a lot of people who want to keep hold of leadership for a long, long time, and we see that a lot in federations.
Alison Brown: You will have to pry my presidency from like cold the hand, no tea box said, and, and they tried to get him, there was people in the IOC who said we could change the rules for you, and he said, no, it’s time to move on.
And I think that’s so psychologically healthy.
Jill Jaracz: Yes, I think it’s good to have a little bit of turnover and some new leadership. uh, a Kirsty Coventry first female head of the IOC. And so that will be, different and. I think a change of leadership, regardless of gender is, uh, refreshing. So, yeah, we’ll see what kind of life she can invigorate, into the games like we have.
We’ll have to do a deep dive on Tebo because he’s gone through a lot during his presidency,
Alison Brown: I think because he is in some ways a very quiet man. in who he is. He’s just very, he is very German. You know, you don’t see a ton of emotion from him. We forget how much has happened and how much he’s accomplished and, and had to manage.
Jill Jaracz: Mm-hmm. Over
Alison Brown: that, those 12 years. I mean, it was a lot.
Jill Jaracz: Exactly. Exactly. We’ll talk a little bit about that later. When we, uh, get to some IOC news,
Follow-up File: The World Games medals are more amazing than we thought
Jill Jaracz: uh, we have a follow up file. Did you see this? Did you see listener Brittany posted a video about the World Games medals on our Facebook group? Clearly not. My jaw is on the desk.
They open up. They open up. It is amazing. And of course, this was not in the press release that we got. And, and I just don’t get the world games sometimes like we have, we haven’t been hounding them. I will say we have asked for interviews and we’ve asked some stuff. Sometimes we get responses a lot of times, no, and then we will also get a lot of press releases on how they’re working on building up awareness of the games and all these things that they’re doing and initiatives they’re taking to.
Build the, this event up, uh, an event that not a lot of people, at least in America know about.
Alison Brown: Okay. I am going to forgive the World Games because as the marketing person for this show, with no staff, I completely understand how it is almost impossible to do everything you either want to or should be doing.
I mean, can you imagine what the World Games staff looks like? It’s probably two guys in a basement. Not quite. Oh,
Jill Jaracz: yeah. I, I mean it, I know it’s small and, and I understand that small organizations are trying to do a lot, but, but there’s a lot of, oh, look at all the things that we’re doing to build up the games.
And yet when we ask for an interview, we don’t get a whole lot back.
Alison Brown: And I feel you World Games. I understand. So, I mean, I
Jill Jaracz: get that we under Yeah. But, but, but. If you’re gonna put out a press release that says, here’s our medal, and you don’t say They open up in the press release. You don’t give pictures in the press release, and instead you put it in your reels and hope that somebody finds it, that doesn’t help either.
Alison Brown: So it’s like a little panda locket.
Jill Jaracz: it is so cute. So Brittany, thank you so much for letting us know. If you want to see this in action, go to our Facebook group, keep The Flame Alive Podcast group, and, uh, yeah, it’s cool. Brittany, thank you so much.
400th Episode Celebration: Join us!
Jill Jaracz: also exciting. That we will be celebrating 400 episodes very, very soon. Virtual P, that’s
Alison Brown: whatcha gonna wear.
Jill Jaracz: Whatcha gonna wear to the probably AAN shirt,
Alison Brown: probably
Jill Jaracz: because it will be likely hot, and I will be in my third floor attic. it gets very hot up here, so I, I tend to keep it cool for the summer. I may have a party hat. I don’t know.
Alison Brown: I think I’m gonna try, oh, I know what I’m gonna dig out.
I have a little thing from Beijing. That would be perfect. I’ll just, Ooh, I gotta make myself a note now.
Jill Jaracz: Just forget the sachet because we don’t Oh my God.
Alison Brown: The sachet.
Jill Jaracz: We don’t have smellovision for our, our, uh, international Women’s Day sachets that Beijing gave us.
Alison Brown: Yes. I have my Beijing box and I will dig it out ’cause I, I have an item that’ll be good.
Jill Jaracz: Excellent. Excellent. Well, we will look forward to seeing that, and we will look forward to having you join us live. Well not live. We look forward to having you join us on the podcast. We will be recording on Monday, July 14th from eight to 10:00 PM. Eastern time. You can find the link@tinyurl.com slash 400 party.
That’s the number 400 so tiny url.com/four party. Monday night, July 14th, eight to 10:00 PM Eastern. Come in, say hello. We’ll chat and you can leave whenever you want.
Alison Brown: So, or we will hold you host.
Jill Jaracz: I know. Well, we also only have nine people at a time, so
that’s, hopefully nine people will show up. But you know, we’d love to see you and hang out with you for a while and talk about what the last 400 episodes have been like.
Alison Brown: Wow. Yeah.
Charlie Cooper on wheelchair tennis
Jill Jaracz: Today’s fun show. We are looking ahead to the future. We are talking with wheelchair tennis player Charlie Cooper.
Charlie won this year’s Australian Open Junior World singles and doubles titles. He won the Boys Doubles title, wheelchair title at the French Open with max million Tauscher, but lost to Tauscher in the singles final. He’s currently ranked second in singles in the world in the junior wheelchair division at 17 years old.
He’s getting ready to transition to the senior ranks has his sights set on the LA 2028 Paralympics. We spoke to Charlie back in March about how he got into wheelchair tennis, his heroes and his plans for LA 28. Take a listen.
Alison Brown: Charlie Cooper, thanks for joining us. We’re excited to talk wheelchair tennis.
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, thank you. It’s a pleasure.
Alison Brown: You, you are in the open division, correct?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, so I’m currently 17 years old and I play in the men’s open division and also Juniors Grand Slams, which I’ve been playing the last few years, and this would be my last year of eligibility, but kind of getting a head start now.
Alison Brown: You’re gonna age out, that’s what happens, right? Yeah, it’s, it’s 18. So open division means you’re in a wheelchair, but you have full use of your upper body.
Charlie Cooper: Yes. So as long as you have a disability, which we go through a classifying, procedure with the classifiers all over the world and they have limited ones throughout, throughout the country and throughout the world that you have to take place in to classify in either the quad division or the open division, which quad being four or more limbs impaired.
So yeah, for me, I’m an open division, which, you know, anyone can play no matter what the age is and disability. So.
Alison Brown: Now with your disability, will you have to reclassify at any point or is it a one and done for you?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, for me now it’s, it was a one and done, but just recently, two years ago, they made everybody reclassify with, with new rules.
So that was a change. And I think they’re looking into more, ch changing the way that the divisions are. So maybe we’ll have one of spine spinal cord injury, one class there instead of, you know, people with no legs or so. So we, we might have to do another classification in the future, but as of now, it’s one and.
Alison Brown: Right. That two years ago was kind of the Aie Hewitt rule. Yes, yes.
Charlie Cooper: Yes,
Alison Brown: it was. He was, that’s a good memory. Was very Well, he was one of my favorites, so I was kind of watching him. Yeah. And he was in, and he was out and he was in again. Right. So definitely your sport is seeing that evolution. I think the more popular it becomes, the more disabled, tennis players, the, the more wheelchair tennis players there are, the more classes you’re gonna need.
Charlie Cooper: Right. Right. Yeah, there’s definitely issues with that. But you know, we see tons of players getting in now and I think it’s good to keep like that or, you know, our numbers are growing now and it, it allows more people to play this sport and, you know, all the disadvantages with having more leg function than others.
I think that’s what makes the sport kind of cool. And it’s, it’s almost like, standup tennis, you know, some people are taller than others and you have to find your way to adapt.
Alison Brown: So one of the things with wheelchair tennis, obviously in able-bodied tennis with things like serves, a lot of the power is coming from the lower body.
You know, you see a lot of people do that jump serve. Where is the power coming from you in your body?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, for me, a fun fact about, you know, the way I use my body in the sport is I actually use my, my legs. I have spina bifida, which I was born with, so I, I pushed down on the foot plate and that helps, you know, kind of keep me steady and helps a little bit more power on the surf with some players, you know, who don’t have legs, you know, that’s a disadvantage.
And you see, I talked to many players like Shingo, who’s probably the best ever in the sport and Hewitt and they, they all use their legs to push on the foot plate. Hold onto the side of the chair and it kind of keeps it more steady and stable. So I feel like that’s an advantage. And even though it’s more upper body sport as we all train arms and back and everything so much, you know, I think it’s just as much, you know, I, my trainers in Florida had me doing squats and I would never would’ve thought I’d be doing that.
So everything matters. And if you have the function, I, I think you gotta use it.
Alison Brown: Okay, now how are you doing squats? explain the dynamics of that ’cause now I’m curious.
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, so for me it’s pretty hard ’cause I have a hard time balancing as much standing up. And so we usually put like a foam block in between my legs and I hold a medicine ball and that foam block helps me from my legs collapsing inwards.
So I’m able to do squats that way. And holding a medicine ball also helps the weight and it’s, it’s really hard for me to do it, but I think it helps in the end.
Alison Brown: Sure. I, I do not do squats, so I can’t Yeah. Speak to this. , The other thing that I noticed a lot when I was watching it, ’cause everybody heard about my day at Roland Garris and I was so excited to be there for, during the Paralympics, you don’t see.
Things like chip and charge or a lot of net play or a lot of coming up, it’s a lot of baseline. Is that simply because. Trying to roll the wheelchair up there very quickly is harder. And trying to balance, is it a height thing? What, what changes the strategy?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, it’s, so originally before, you know, you have all these younger players come in.
I think that the thought was, you know, if you go to the net in a wheelchair, it’s so easy to get lobbed and you have so much high over you, you’re not as tall. You know, we’re probably like maybe five foot in the chair and. So when you go up to the net and have the people lobbing over you, it really, you know, crushes your heart.
You know, you cannot be certain volume, even the, even the men’s game now, I live here in Indian, well, and I was watching the BP Parva open the last few days. You know, you never see anyone start volleying anymore besides Ben Shelton. And so it’s really, the game is changing so much and everybody’s kind to base baseline.
But now you have players like Takeda ota who won the Paralympic Gold medal. Your tennis, you know, he’s serving and going to the net right away trying to find ways to hit volleys. And that’s actually what I’m learning in practice a lot. You know, you need to be different and I think the sport’s evolving so much.
‘ cause if you could take the most time away from the opponent, it’s hard to move the chair. You can’t sidestep or anything. So if I’m at the net volley really quick in the point, then you know the point’s gonna be over and that person’s gonna have an advantage. So I think the game’s changing a lot, but the height difference is what’s, you know, limiting it a, a fair amount.
Alison Brown: Charlie, me standing is five feet, so be careful.
Charlie Cooper: Sorry. Sorry.
Alison Brown: So literally, how tall are you standing?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, so I’m around 5, 4, 5, 5. I’m a pretty small guy, so when I’m in the chair. I, I think my reach is pretty good, but you have some players that are six foot and qui is a five 10. So there’s some taller players and there’s some advantage and disadvantages that it could also be talked about too.
You know, if you’re, if you’re smaller, you know, you’re closer to the ground, lower to the ground, you have a better push, better turn. But when you’re taller, you have better serves, maybe better strokes. So again, there’s all these a adaptations that, you know, need to be, are required for the sport.
Alison Brown: But it also sounds like the same differences you see in able-bodied tennis.
Right, right, right. Some people will have be more muscular, some people will be taller, some people will be quicker. All those things really are the same. Tennis is tennis ultimately. Yeah. The other thing I noticed there is no two hand backhand in wheelchair tennis. Yeah. Does, have you ever seen a player do a two handed backhand with wheelchair tennis?
Charlie Cooper: I might have done it in practice. This is a joke, but I’ve never, I’ve never seen it on tour yet, so until someone pulls it out, I’ll let you know. But yeah, it’s, it’s just hard because we gotta keep both of our hands on the wheels at all times. Get ready to move. So that’s the, that’s my favorite part of the sport though.
Everybody has a one hand backhand. You know, if you like Roger Feder, you’re gonna love winter to tennis. So. I haven’t seen it yet, but maybe I’ll be the first. You,
Alison Brown: the Chris ever of wheelchair tennis. Your two titles are both on Hard Court, Australian Open, and US Open from the boys division. Do you have a lot of experience doing grass and C clay yet?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, so I’ve, I played on grass once, so I’ve never played on Wimbledon yet, as we don’t have a junior draw there yet, and I’m kind of working my way up to the men’s, so. I’ve not played on that kind of grass, but a really high at a, at a place called JW Marriott out here in Palm Desert, which is super high and it was super hard to move.
And Red Clay, you know, I don’t have as much experience on, I’ve played one tournament in my life last year and we won it the BP for US World Team Cup, which is like our Davis Cup. And you know, I love the clay. It’s, I feel like it’s so funny, you know, get the, get the dirt, the clay all over you. It’s really cool.
I love the grind, so I hope to place many more on clay and, we’ll, we actually be back in Turkey this, this next month for a wilting cup and I’ll be playing on the men’s team, so I’ll get some more experience there. But in the US we have a lot of green clay, which I, I don’t like it personally. It’s really fast and it’s hard to move.
So the, there’s all these different services that we all play on and, you know, we all have to adapt to it, but I think hardcore is my favorite. Growing up on it.
Alison Brown: So back in the spring we spoke to David Wagner, We asked him about playing on the red clay. Obviously he’s done this a lot and he said the most disturbing thing is where all the clay gets Yeah.
Just gets everywhere in your body. Yeah. In your chair, in your mouth. So I don’t know if tasting it would be a lot of fun.
Charlie Cooper: No. Yeah. It gets, it gets all over me. I, I have some in my chair still from. Literally six months ago, it just does not go away. I put probably end my bed too. So,
Alison Brown: speaking of your chair and the rules, you were talking about the reach and for example, in sitting volleyball, they have a butt rule how you’re, you know, you gotta keep one cheek on the ground.
Charlie Cooper: Okay. Yeah.
Alison Brown: Is there a cheek rule in wheelchair tennis?
Charlie Cooper: I’ve heard a cheek rule, but there’s a strap rule. You have to be strapped down. you can’t be coming outta your chair standing up and your feet can’t be touching the ground. So those, those are the rules for that. But I think players, you know, try to get past that and, almost most of ’em are kind of kneeling sometimes trying to open up their hips.
So there’s definitely not those kind of rules in, and you know, our chairs are super advanced now, so we’re trying to get the best benefits we can, but everyone seems to be strapped down more. One with the chair, you know, if you move the chair, move with you.
Alison Brown: Okay. So let’s talk about the chair. What is, the difference between a wheelchair tennis chair versus your street chair?
Charlie Cooper: So f first of all, you know, the wheels are, you know, C out, um, they’re tilted out and that’s for like, turning all these fast movements. And the material’s also different too. I mean, on the top chairs now, I mean, I have an RGK brand chair and that’s what, you know, AFI has and all the British players, it’s really popular and it’s made outta carbon fiber.
Um, a lot of the materials on the chair. And I also have a thing called a bucket now, which is the seat. It’s not just the regular. Back in two sides, holding you in. It’s, it’s more shaped perfectly to your body and it’s, it surrounds you. So I feel like that helps with my hip movement and everything. So they’re much, you know, much designed to yourself, more than just a seat, I’d say.
And it moves away quicker.
Alison Brown: How much do they cost?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah. I mean, get, it’s a motorcycle. You know, if you get the top of the line, it could be up to, you know, 10,000 or more US dollars. So it’s, it’s pretty pricey. But, you know, there’s lots of foundations throughout the, adaptive sports world that, could help you with that cost.
And, you know, even, even the, you know, companies like RGK can help sponsor and it’s, it’s really cool that, you know, they all work for you. You know, if you can’t get a chair, you know, there’s someone out there, some organization that’ll help you get one. So, I, I think it is really accessible, uh, here in the US to get a sports chair.
Alison Brown: How often do you have to replace the chair or is it pieces like you replace the bucket and then you replace parts and kind of rebuilding it constantly?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, so actually I just, just changed my chair back in December and for me, you know, I’m 17 years old, I’m growing a lot, so that’s also something you have to factor in and.
You know, is it a good investment to invest now and then I grow, you know, a year later? Maybe not. But if you have, sponsors and things that, that could help you, then it’s more reasonable. So that’s something that, you know, younger athletes have to, look forward to. It’s not just like changing shoes.
You’re investing $10,000 in a new chair when you’re growing. So I’d say, you know, I think the top of the line players change every one to two years. maybe finding another advantage, which moving your chair. Your seat, you know, inwards to be more aggressive when sitting and there’s all these changes that they do.
But in the junior space, you know, we’re changing ’cause we’re growing and I think that’s, that’s a big part of the sport, which might be a problem now, is how expensive the chairs are. But I think once we get by that, with sponsors and everything, and it would be it, it’ll be more easier to, you know, adapt.
Alison Brown: How terrifying is it when you put that chair on the airplane?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah. I’ve been blessed. I’ve not had any problems recently with, in the last two years with my chair. And a big thing now is everybody’s getting huge boxes to put on their chair. I, I know some people that have, Pet cages that they put their chair in, which is, which is a cool design, but you know, everyone’s just so, so scared of a wheel breaking or something because, you know, that could cost you the tournament.
So, you know, I definitely have to start taking more, better care of my chair. I just, I guess I’ve been lucky recently, so. but in the past 17,
Alison Brown: Charlie, it’s what you do at 17. Yeah. You take chances.
Charlie Cooper: I take risks. So, yeah. it’s scary for everyone. I know everybody’s, me and my dad, you know, we go to the airports, like, is is it gonna be on the plane?
Is, is it tag? Right? We’ve gotta make sure all that stuff is right. And I think airlines are getting better with it. But, you know, I’ve seen videos, workers just throwing chairs around after the, after the plan lands. because, you know, sports, sports chairs, you know, it’s a sport now.
You know, it’s our, it’s most, most of these people’s, you know, income, their, their life. So I think it’s gotta be treated more carefully. But, you know, like the boxes, all these advancements are helping with that.
Alison Brown: What kind of shoes are you wearing when you’re playing? I.
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, so I’m sponsored by Yonic, so I wear Yonic shoes, but I actually have, I, I’ve not realized that, I haven’t figured out if any shoe is an advantage or not yet.
We’ll have to do a study on that. But, yeah, I, I don’t think shoes have a huge part in play yet, but I wear the tennis shoes just to go with the outfit and, you know, look good. Fla Good.
Alison Brown: You mentioned, Shingo Den. Am I pronouncing that right? As kind of your tennis hero. He’s one of the greats of wheelchair tennis.
But what about his game speaks to you?
Charlie Cooper: I, I’ve been, you know, blessed that he’s moved out to Orlando, fulltime to learn English and to help us train at the USDA national campus. And so I go there, I’m actually going there tomorrow. I, uh, two weeks outta each month. So I’m, you know, with him every time he is teaching me how to hit balls and mainly his mentality.
And I think that’s what he is taught me the whole time. Um. so basically even when he was the best player, I think he was the number one for like 10 years, um, year end. And, he didn’t just stop there. He always thought, you know, how can I get better? What’s something I can improve?
Because I think once you hit number one, some people, you know, peaked. They’re like, I’ve done everything I can. But Shingo was like, no, I’m, I’m hitting the practice court. Uh, I need to hit 10,000 balls of this one shot. And his, you know, mentality is insane. He is always trying to get better, even against me, you know, he is retired, but he is the greatest and he is playing against, you know, a junior like me.
I hear him in the back. He’s like, let’s go at this point, at this point, and speaking of Japanese, he’s just like, we’re playing a grand Slam final. I’m like, oh, shoot. he’s not going easy. So that’s what I love about him and it, it helps me, you know, bring that fierceness to the court and I gotta keep learning from her every day.
Alison Brown: You mentioned you’re, you’re gonna have to move up, but you’ve also been trying to move up from boys to men. What’s the difference? I mean, obviously it’s harder, but what does that mean in the nitty gritty?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, so it’s a big jump for sure. And the junior games evolved so much. Like we just started Grand Slams, which our first US open three years ago for juniors.
- So the space is evolving so much and it’s like standup tennis now where you have juniors trying to get into that stage. And I think I’m, you know, kind of one of the first going through that, going through that stage in the sport as it’s all new. You know, there hasn’t been any signs of, you know, winning a junior grand slam means means you’re gonna win it Men’s Grand Slam.
so it’s a big jump and I think in the men’s game, you know, there’s just way less mistakes. Um, you know, I might hit a ball down the middle, not so hard, and you know, a junior player might miss it. And it’s just about who gets the ball in more men’s game. I have to be hitting, you know, 90, 90% down the line to get a point off someone like Gordon Reed or Shingo.
So it’s, it’s a much different game. And what I’ve realized is you gotta be taking it serious. You gotta make sure that, you know, everything’s in place, going in the tournament, you know, your health is good. It’s just like, just, standup tennis, everything’s the same. And that’s something I have to learn.
As, a few years ago, I thought I’d be fine, just training, you know, going to school in person, just training three times a week. And it wasn’t until, you know, the reality of the men hit where everybody’s so good and everybody’s got their trainers, where it’s like, if I want to do it, I gotta take it serious.
And with help from my parents, I, I made that choice last year pretty much in March to, you know, go, go online and, and, uh, go to school in ICL Academy and, train full-time. So it’s been awesome, but that’s what helped me and that’s the difference, you know, I, I have to understand what it takes and that’s the goal of the mends.
Alison Brown: So you said you’re gonna school online, so you’re not going to school in person and you’re doing the off court training. Besides squats, what does off court training look like for you?
Charlie Cooper: so I, in Florida, you know, I work out every day for an hour each day. And at home it’s three to four times with my trainer here, but I’m mostly in Florida.
So. you know, we do bench pressing a lot. We have a skier machine and a, and a rowing machine, all for Samina and. We’ve also, uh, do a lot of drills with the, with the chair that they make adaptations in Florida, you know, we had a chair on two treadmills and they’d be kind of slow and I’d have, I’d have to push against the treadmill, and that was probably one of the hardest workouts I’ve done.
And we also do drills inside, um, the indoor courts where we, where we have, timers set on the ground or, sensors that check how fast you turn and speed drills that, time you so you can get better each week. So all those things are, you know, essential, just like standard tennis, you gotta be doing all those certain tests to get better.
And one thing that I also do is, you know, mental, mental training. I have a, mental coach, psychologist. Who helps me. I talk to him, you know, almost every week and a couple times a week. He’s, is like my therapist and you know, sometimes it’s about things on court, but it’s also off court, like pressure, you know, feeling and you know, how life could just get so much, you know, playing tennis and then, having to deal with all the pressure, you know, wanting to become the best men player.
But transferring on to junior stage is something I’ve been, figuring out recently. It’s, it’s really hard. So. Being able to talk with him is, is amazing. And it’s something that w tennis athletes in the past have not had. The opportunity is just all this junior space is new and the USCA, taking good care of us now with W Tennis, you know, they’re, they’re fully in and, and you know, we’re treated just like anyone else
Alison Brown: Let me ask you a little bit about doubles, ’cause I know you play doubles as well, and I loved watching wheelchair doubles. Now with standup tennis, there is always the issue of you have to make sure you don’t crash into each other.
And I would think with wheelchair tennis, that is even more complicated because you can’t move sideways. You can only move front and back. Right. Wheels don’t go sideways. Yeah. So is it an issue, like how do you work with that issue when you know your, your mobility is limited? I.
Charlie Cooper: Yeah. Odds. It’s mainly just communication.
You know, when you watch Winter Tennessee, there’s so much communication going on. It’s, uh, you, me, um, switch, you know, we’re doing all these different movements and, I, I play with, you know, my friend Temas, who’s, who’s my age, temas Maje from Colorado. And, you know, we’re pretty much the, you know, the top US juniors, transferring into the men’s stage right now.
we play together a lot, so we, we know each other very well, but, you know, when he watches play, we’ll be saying switch a lot, which means we switch sides and, you know, one of us goes up, one of us is back. And I think that’s kind of how we, how, how we navigate not hitting each other. But there’s, there’s been so many times, even recently still happens where.
a ball’s coming down the middle. We both turn sideways and one of us hitting back end and one of us hitting a forehand and we just clash. So there, there’s a lot of that and a lot of hitting each other, but it’s just communication’s. The biggest, and I think that’s what’s cool about the sport is you know that it’s almost like a dance.
You know, one chair’s going forward, the other one’s moving around and it’s really fun to watch.
Alison Brown: I think what’s fun about wheelchair Drs is you really can it more than standup tennis. You see the communication, you know? Yeah. You see it more where it happens so quickly in standup tennis and so little moves the wheelchair tennis, it’s bigger moves just because it’s you and the chair.
Yeah. And that makes it fun to, to watch.
Charlie Cooper: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that’s really cool the way you worded it. it’s definitely, it’s, I mean, it’s, it’s not only a little slower, it’s, it’s, you know, there’s, there’s more tactics to it, if my partner’s at the net. Turning around. I, I mean, I gotta hit it, I gotta hit higher to, I might have time for my partner to get back and there’s all these different tactics, but, yeah, I mean, you won’t really see four people at the net.
like everybody tennis. So we have much longer rallies and, so much, so much cooler shots. I think ’cause everything’s kind of slower and that yeah, that, that’s what makes it cooler. ’cause you know, it’s the chair and you, you’re not just sidestepping everywhere running around. So, yeah, that, that’s what makes it really cool.
Alison Brown: What’s your favorite shot?
Charlie Cooper: So my favorite shots, the backend down the line. I just, I love the one handed backend, and it’s something I’ve, I’ve always loved. Um, Shingo, you know, has helped me, helped me learn it too. He is got one of the best, so it, it just feels so good, you know, because it’s, it’s, you know, again, it’s hard to sidestep hard to move across the court.
So when someone serves a ball on the ad side. and I’m ready on the backend, returning. All I have to do is go straight down the line and, eight outta 10 times it, it’s a winner if it’s, if it’s close, because it’s just so hard to get out of the serve position to push to the other side of the court.
And that’s, that’s something that, you know, players have to adapt to. But that’s, it just means how big the return game is in the sport. You know, I, I think it’s bigger than serving because if, if you could return the ball really well to the other side of the court, eight outta 10 times, you know, you’re winning those eight points.
And, you know, with, with Serve speeds, not, not getting up, we don’t, we obviously don’t hit past, you know, 1 20, 1 30. You might see, you know, 1, 1 10 at most. You know, you’re not, you’re not hitting the biggest serve. So I think return game’s the coolest and that’s why I like my vac down the line.
Alison Brown: Is there anything different about your racket versus standup tennis racket?
Charlie Cooper: I, I would, I would say no. I think we all, we all do pretty much the same things. I, I think the men’s game has been really heavy with the way they, you know, add weight to the rackets, in Wadi. And I don’t think that would be the same for a wheelchair as, you know, I. It’s hard to push a heavy racket while pushing the cherry and I, I’ve done it before.
it’s really tiring on the arms and it might feel good for the first few shots, but once you’re two hours in a match, it’s, it’s gonna feel the worst. So I think we do have lighter rackets, but talking with Shingo, talking with a alpha, you know, they’re all custom with the brand, you know, it’s, it’s pretty cool treatment.
And, they all change the weight, the string’s the same, so. everything’s pretty much the same. And even the standup pros are starting to go lighter with the rackets to get faster racket head speed. So I, I think it’s all the same.
Alison Brown: Are you a tight string or a loose string person?
Charlie Cooper: I, I used to be a tight string until I started hurting my arms. So recently I just went down to 48 pounds, which is, I think it, it seemed pretty low. I, I just like, I like the feeling and I just, I found a way to control it, but it just feels so good when it’s, when it.
Alison Brown: Okay. You mentioned hurting your arm with having spina bifida.
Are there specific injuries that you need to be concerned about that another player wouldn’t?
Charlie Cooper: I’d say there, there might be a, the lower back could be a little, a little different than other players. As you know, most of us have, or were born with, you know, called tethered cords, so things are pretty tight down there.
And, you know, if you don’t take care of yourself, you don’t stretch, then you might get, you know, muscle spasms, which I’ve, I’ve had that before. it was more of, you know, picking up a weight and the way I can’t use my legs to, to, to, you know, hold that weight, it puts stress in my lower back. And so having all the spin to surgery there, it could, it could affect it.
But I, I haven’t heard any, anything specific about, you know, injuries with spina bi tennis. But I’m sure they’re there. But, you know, we, we have to do the best to take care of myself, and I’m starting to get better at it. it’s hard, you know, I’m 17, I, I don’t really wanna stretch or anything, but learned the hard way last year.
So I’m definitely getting more into it. And yeah, all my physical therapist, I talked to them like, I’ve you stretched. I’m like, no, I haven’t. And so it’s all the same thing, you know? And Charlotte as
Alison Brown: much kids like me don’t, Charlotte, I’m not 17 and I will tell you stretch now and you’ll be so happy when you get older.
Charlie Cooper: That’s what I hear. We’ll see, I’m, I’m taking the risk.
Alison Brown: So is, are you just like a typical teenage boy in hate stretching? Or is something like, are you just super tight.
Charlie Cooper: So for wheelchair tennis, you know, all of our forearms are just super tight and it’s almost impossible to get it loose. Like it’s just a wall.
And I’ve tried, you know, massaging it so many times with, with different people and it’s just, it really doesn’t get any looser. So wheelchair tennis players in general are all really tight in the upper body. ’cause that’s all we do. We don’t just, we don’t run and then only hit the ball. We’re pushing nonstop.
So, I’m very tight, but it’s also, you know, I don’t. I don’t always take the time to stretch, you know, at home. I, I’m not, it just, it’s just hard for me to do that. You know, I just wake up and just wanna go to practice already, so it’s something I have to go through. But, you know, I’m, I’m learning, I’m getting better, you know, it’s, it’s what it takes, so, yeah.
Alison Brown: Right. You’re still, I mean, you’re st you’re moving up in that division and you’re learning all this off court things and what you need to do. you know, you talked about Hindo and who else are you admiring and kind of taking clues? Where are you stealing from?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, so I, I’d definitely say taquito OTA for sure.
you know, he’s only like two years older than me, so he is, he’s, he’s very young and, he’s really good fast. So, like I talked about, you know, the way he comes to the net, the way he’s so aggressive, it’s, it is really something to learn from because. Back five, 10 years ago, or, when I first started about seven years ago, there, there was no one coming to the net.
Everybody was sitting back in the court waiting for the two bounces and now it’s like, if you don’t take one bounce, then you’re behind. You’re not gonna win the point. So that’s huge right now. And I’m, I’m learning that and obviously Shingo is the best example for me ’cause he, he played so well, just right on the line.
And, you know, you have Roger Federer right in front of you, pretty much of wheelchair tennis. And so I, I take most of my. Tips from, from them too, the Japanese, and also, you know, on the standup side it’s Ben Shelton. You know, I, I love the way he plays and it’s more, I learn the mentality from him.
I love the way he gets hyped up, and that’s what I need, you know, when watch my match, you know, I, if it, lets go. And then that’s what I, I do all that stuff to try to get myself in the game. You know, I’m not, not trying to be obnoxious ever. I.
Yeah, bench helps. Just, it’s really a role model for me. And you know, we’re pretty good friends. I see him at the campus a lot at USDA, so it’s cool to have him around. But I like that younger energy and I think it’s what the sport needs because, I think you keep, if you bring too much of a, you know, of a robot kinda activity, you know, you just, no, no celebration.
I think it’s hard for people to get into the sport, especially younger, because for me, you know, I wasn’t a typical tennis player growing up. My parents never played. I wanted to be an N-B-A-N-F-L player, but I couldn’t because I had a disability. So I, I love the energy, I love, I love the trash talk, but I, I own trash talk, but I love, I love that kind of energy.
I love the let’s go all of that stuff. It’s just, it’s just what I grew up with. And so for me bringing a tennis, I think this attracts more people. And that’s what Ben Shelton’s been doing. He is huge traction is because the way his personality is and the way he kind of brings that basketball side of the court.
And I think that’s what we need in wh tennis because. I think to grow it, we need the younger generation to come in, and that’s what I’ve started to do. And I, I hope to be, you know, inspiration for those kids that, that don’t know what tennis is and, and have a disability and see that they could be playing at the same stages as all these players, as it’s, you know, the one adopted sport where you can, pretty much make a living and also play at the Grand Slams, which is, which is amazing.
Alison Brown: Well, alpha Hewitt is also a talker. So you’re in good company. Yeah. He has a lot to say when he is on the court. Gordon Reed also. Yes. Yes. Is a, is a talker. So you, you come from, you are, you are taking from the best on that one. what’s your favorite kind of opponent? Like when you see this opponent on your, bracket?
Oh, this is gonna be fun.
Charlie Cooper: I think it’s the loud ERs. I, I just love playing though, and especially the Spanish. Um, Danny Cece, who’s been playing for a long time, he’s top 10. He, he drums super loud, but it’s, it’s, I I love it. I, I love his grind. He, he fights so hard and, and even though the, the ball might not be, he might not be hitting as hard as he can, he still puts all that.
You feel it when he grunts. It’s just, it feels like a huge ball is coming at you. And Martine de la Puente from Spain too. Another, another grinder on Clay. And those guys inspire me a lot too. I mean, in practice with my coach in Florida, you know, we’d be playing every time we play in the Red Clay, leading up to, you know, one of these tournaments.
We’re grunting as loud as we can. You know, we go, Martine, like we yell these players names. they, they know too. We talk about it. And we’ve even changed my name from Charlie to Charin, which is an honor, Martine, just the way we play on the clay. So those are my favorite players to play. And it gets, it gets me, you know, really in the game when people are Gretchen Loud and helps me get the energy.
So I like, I like where the court’s loud and I think that attracts the most fans too. Whatever’s loud, that’s where they go. So.
Alison Brown: You talked a little bit about when you were a kid, you didn’t come from a tennis background. how did that come to be that you ended up on the tennis court?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, so I, I played T-ball growing up ’cause I’ve, I walked with leg braces my whole life So I was playing, you know, basketball, standing up for fun with my friends in, fifth grade, middle school. And I, I would’ve never, I’ve imagined playing tennis and it wasn’t until I went to a guitar shop because, you know, I played the guitar and piano, which was a huge passion in my life. And, you know, mostly, mostly in the worship music.
So I went to the guitar shop one day and met someone outside with spina bifida, which was, you know, a younger kid. And he told, you know, my mother and I about a clinic going out at the Indy Wall Tennis Garden, and, which is three minutes from my house. So I gave it a shot Friday and I met my coach Dwayne the Gay, who’s still my coach now, which is crazy.
And another player named Todd Hanover, who was, you know, one of the top US players Then. Seeing that, you know, it was all new my first time pushing a chair, first time hitting a, hitting a ball. It was all so new for me. And, and that’s something also I had to, you know, adapt was, I didn’t know how to push a chair.
I was, it was all new, like most kinda, most players, you know, grow up pushing chairs in wheelchair tennis. I had to learn all those skills and I think I, it was, it was really hard, but. That, that was the dream I found. You know, I, like I said, I wanted to be in the NFL, I wanted to play NBA, just like most other kids.
And you know, my parents, you know, didn’t know what, you know, the dream for my life would be either, you know, having to kill. So finding what you’re trying to, now seeing where I am now, it just, it’s amazing. And I think it’s, you know, a gift from God that I have a disability. ’cause if I didn’t, I think I’d just be a regular kid, you know, just playing high school baseball.
Going to college, not playing sports again. And so I’m blessed to have the opportunity and I, it’s really helped my mentality and that’s what I want to show other kids that a disability is, is just, just the ability, you know, to inspire and find your sport, find your passion.
Alison Brown: Okay. So you’re 17. Are you a junior or a senior in high school?
Junior.
Charlie Cooper: Junior.
Alison Brown: Junior, okay. So you’ve got one more year. We’re looking ahead to 28. ’cause I know you’ve mentioned. Uh, LA 28 is the goal. What are the next three years? Are they mapped out? What do they look like for you in terms of, of moving towards that goal?
Charlie Cooper: Yeah, it’s, it’s a good question. So I don’t have this mapped out too well right now.
I mean, not looked at colleges yet. it’s something I talk about with, you know, my parents. Some coaches, it’s, Wichita is different, you know, in the able body side. You could go to college, you could play division one, and. Played some of the top 200 players in the world, ’cause most of ’em are playing college tennis and came out of it.
So wish miss is different because I think the junior space is, stronger than the top. The top junior spaces could be stronger than most of these colleges already, and it’s just a matter of getting, getting more players in that are, you know, trained full time, but. There, there’s some great coaches, great programs, you know, you’ll get scholarships.
But right now I think the path to becoming the top is not through college right now, or a college team, which is, it’s too bad. ’cause, you know, I, I love to, I, I’d love to go to college in person and have that whole experience, but I think, online college or doing something with that might be, might be the way since it’s just in three years and that’s what some top athletes have or most have to do now.
You know, I think, Like Martine de La Puente, he went to, he went to like online college. And some of these, most of these athletes I talked to are, are still learning, you know, a business degree online. So it’s, it’s very, it’s very hard to go in person and still travel full time because, you know, we’re traveling all around the world, not just in the state.
So, yeah, I think, I’ll give it another year. You’ll see, see where I’m at. Uh, I’ll see from there. But you know, as of now we’re thinking about possibly even moving to Orlando to train full-time, which, which would be huge because we have Shingo there and a whole program there to help, to help me get better and, leading up to the Paralympic games, which is my dream.
So my, my, you know, my parents support me a lot and you know, they understand that, you know, God gave me this dream, and this is it. The Paralympics in la, which is my home state, you know, home, home city pretty much. So. It’s amazing. But, you know, try to make the right steps to get to that level. And, I know my parents wa really want me to go to college, but, you know, I wish I would, I wish I could just play tennis now.
Alison Brown: And you know what? There’s no one road. That’s the one thing I will Yeah. That’s my mom voice coming in, going, there’s no one road to any of this. when you’re looking forward in terms of thinking about this is a career, ’cause you’re saying I, I only wanna play tennis. Yeah. Where is wheelchair tennis as a field in terms of being able to do that?
Charlie Cooper: it’s growing so much and it’s, it’s crazy that we even get to have this conversation about this because a few years ago, no one would’ve thought of this, you know, back 10 years ago, even the founders of the sport, uh, Brad Parks, I don’t think we’d ever see, we were trying to, you know, be able to make a living.
’cause I think they were making like maybe 50 bucks for winning a grand slam back in the day. now it’s, it’s really cool ’cause you know, the winners get, get around a hundred thousand of a grand slam, which, you know, it’s, it’s not the greatest amount, but it, it’s something and it’s, it’s, it’s cool that the Grand Slam are supporting it this way.
And I think it mainly comes through sponsors and opportunities like speaking and inspiring others. And if you’re doing all of that, I think, you know, I’ve been told from, from my coach in Florida, you know, if you’re. If you’re, if you’re doing the right thing and inspiring others, you know, you can’t, you can’t really fail.
You know, there’s, you’re, you’re finding good in some way. So, yeah, I think the players are making a good, a good amount of living. I mean, shingle s was the first one to do it, pretty much, you know, having a full agent with IMG and. first athlete of Uniqlo, which is huge. So if you’re partner with a huge brand like that, and I think it’s more about inspiring and getting more players in the sport.
It’s bigger than the prize money and that’s how, that’s how, you know, standup tennis is, I don’t think players are living off of prize money. It’s, it’s, it’s really hard sports. So, yeah, I think it’s getting that space and it’s, it could be pretty well, and obviously I think you gotta have something else after Wooer Tennis and.
You know, for me, I, I still trying to figure that out. I think it’d be really cool to be a sports agent after I, I love that field and then I think it’s really cool. So maybe if I go through that all that stage and become a top player with the learning, the sports agency on the way, then I think maybe that would be my dream after.
So, yeah, I, I think, I think players are making a good living, like, you know, Alfie and Taquito and, and you know, all of them. I, I think it’s very well so. I think yeah, it is possible. And I think it’s the one sport where you can do that. you can do the tennis route and make a living. So it’s really cool.
And it’s, it’s cool to be having that discussion too, because adaptive sports. You know, I don’t think most people would ever think that it’s, it’s, it’s just crazy because, I think viewers make revenue and with all this sponsors and everything, and, it’s really special to be able to make a living in tennis.
Alison Brown: You mentioned that, wheelchair tennis is now under the auspices of the USTA. What’s your relationship with like them? What are you hearing from them? What’s the, what is that, agent association doing for the wheelchair tennis players?
Charlie Cooper: our wheelchair tennis goes through ICF, which is the rankings, but you know, our USCA handles the wheelchair tennis in the US and.
I think just, just around 20 18, 20 19, you know, our winter tennis got accepted into the, into the USCA, fully, and that means that, you know, us as players, you know, working with the coaches, we get to train full-time at the USCA National campus, which has, a hundred courts, you know, the best trainers, best coaches.
And we’re also, just looking into hiring a full-time coach for the USCA for the first time. we have a wonderful coach named Jason Harnett There. Who has, you know, been around for so long and has coached many great players. And no, he kind of runs everything. You know, he is helping funding go out for wheelchair tennis.
He’s make changing rules, helping the grassroots, and then while coaching players like Dana Matthewson full-time, or you know, Mayley Phelps and me, it’s, it’s really a lot for him. So for them, hiring a full-time coach is huge. So now I’ll be able to go out there and. train with him, or train with another coach.
And we’re actually having a, a lot of players move out there now, like, you know, my friend Tomas Je is moving out there and Maylee Phelps, who’s a rising women’s player, moved out there. So it’s everyone’s kind of coming together in Florida. And I think that’s also something that’s, that’s not talked about too in the sport.
if you look at Witcher, China, see a lot of players are from the Netherlands and top players like Esra Verge, who was a legend and de. So you have all these top players, and I think we talked to them because they all train together. You know, they’re all close together in.
Two hours just to get to the state next to me. Really, it’s, it’s, it’s crazy. And from California to Florida, it’s a whole day to get there. So it’s not as easy to train with other butcher players. But I think that’s what, that’s kinda what we were lacking. But now that we have this center in the USCA and them partnering with us Shingo coming out, it’s really helping us all tremendously.
Alison Brown: The Dutch also have the advantage of the Dutch fans. Have you seen these Dutch fans? They are insane. The, the
Charlie Cooper: blow horns. They’re crazy.
Alison Brown: And all the orange. I was a little frightened when I,
Charlie Cooper: yeah.
Alison Brown: What have I missed about wheelchair tennis that you want people to know about?
Charlie Cooper: I, I think one thing that most people don’t know about now is that the Miami Open is taking, is taking place this next week and we have Cher Tennis there and we’re starting to open up at many a TP terms, WTA.
And I think, you know, the goal long term or just maybe just a few years is to have the circuit go along with the A-T-P-W-T-A. And so if, if once we have all of our players competing at the same levels and kind of having a challenger level maybe with the ITF. And to make, to, to get up into that stage, I think will.
A much professional, I mean a much more watched sport and the competitiveness is just gonna keep going up. The players coming in are, is gonna keep going up. So that’s something huge that, you know, many people don’t know about. I think we’re hopefully gonna get Indian wells next year on the radar for an invitational, which would be cool.
So I. I, I think these are huge steps and just in the, you know, grand Slams, you know, if, if you were to go out to Grand Slams, you know, you’re gonna see Wooer Tennis there, which is amazing. And draw sizes are going up so much. You know, I think we had around, you know, 48, 60 people at US open last year playing Wooer tennis in the tournament, which is huge.
You know, just the presence of witchers going around in the locker room. I mean, I was sitting next to, Carlos Alcaraz in the locker room and Asha and open, and we’re all just coming together as one. So it’s, it’s really amazing and. I think witch hunt is pretty easy to spot. Now if you go to a Grand Slam and that’s, that’s what we need, you know, one person saying witch hunt and telling their friend who has maybe a disabled kid or someone with spina bifida saying, oh, they’re playing at the Grand Slams.
You, you should get into this. And that’s what we need. And I think eventually, hopefully we’ll be on ESPN someday on you main channel. I mean, that’s kind of my dream to see, you know, waking up one day, turning on the TV and. Thing, wheelchair tennis, uh, that, that would just be amazing. And the Paralympics was a huge step, having full stadiums out at, at rolling at the rolling garage sites, it was just amazing to see that.
And how many people came out. The French fans are going crazy. I, I, it was, I love to see all that. So to have that in la you know, that’s my goal. Um, because I think we need someone to promote Witcher Tennis in the us And I, I think it’s, it’s been a while since we’ve had someone like that. And so for me to do it and hopefully do it in the right way to inspire the younger kids, and it’s because it’s, it’s all less about me.
You know, I’ve been given this opportunity from, from God and from the people that found a wheelchair, tennis, it’s, it’s helped everything I’ve dreamed of. Otherwise, I’d be, you know, your normal kid or, for me, I, I had, I also had like kind of. Stayed in my house a lot and was kind of afraid to go out and do things, having a disability.
So it’s helped me, branch out and discover, find myself, and find my dream, and that’s what I want for other kids. So that’s my goal for LA 2028.
Alison Brown: How is accessibility when it comes to places like, uh, flushing Meadow or Indian Wells, or any of these other big, tournaments?
Charlie Cooper: I think you get some tournaments that are so good and there some tournaments that are just, you got wooden planks in the ground that you have to push on.
So in the US I think we do a really good job now, actually. I think everything’s pretty accessible. We got elevators in every building but it’s really hard when you go to places like France or England, you know, there’s always a step up to go in the door, like a huge step in these little shops. And even pushing the ground like broken stones on the ground and it’s, it, I think it’s really hard to get around there, but here in the us you know, we’re blessed to have, you know, amazing access everywhere.
The, the US opened amazing access. They, they let us in the tournament, transportation cars, even for the juniors, which is just really nice. Cadillacs, just because, some players might have a hard time transferring onto a bus. So being in these cars and the treatment they give us is amazing and elevators, everywhere, doors you could, you know, push the button and it opens.
It may, I think America does a really good job. but yeah, I think it, I would like to see it more in the, in Europe. ’cause you, it’s always a hard time. Everybody dreads it. The doors are too small. It’s, it’s really hard. And especially with the cities being so old, you know, it’s with, with less advancements.
I think that’s, the tough part about accessibility in.
Alison Brown: Thank you. A DA here in the us.
Charlie Cooper: Yep.
Alison Brown: What about Charlie Cooper? Have I missed that you wanna share with people?
Charlie Cooper: I think, I think one thing about me that, I want most people to know is just, I love, I love, you know, talking to, talking to people.
I love talking to young, younger kids. Asking me questions about, how do you not have pressure for this match? You know, I, I have a kid named, Fernando, who’s really good coming up, with my friend. he’s a probably like five years, four years younger than me and, um, outta San Diego. And, you know, he, he texts me sometimes, he’s just like, how do you deal with pressure for a match?
What do you think I should work on for this tournament? Uh, mentally and I, I love, I love giving tips to them because that’s why I do it, to get those kids playing. And, um, I’ll always show up to, you know, these, these camps here at these tournaments and show up and say, say hi, hit with some players.
You know, I, I just love it because the sports giving so much to me, so I love giving back to them. Something else that, you know, most people don’t get to know about me either is, I kind of mentioned it, you know, I play the guitar on the piano. I love playing music. I played for since I was seven.
And I also, like, I do, uh, music producing too. So I, work mainly in, you know, rap, music, other music like that, making the beats and audio mixing and stuff like that, which is really cool. I do on my downtime and that’s something that most people dunno about me. So I, I have a love for music and that was my passion before tennis.
that’s what led me to fine tennis, going to the guitar shop. So everything fell together. But, you know, that’s what I do and everybody’s still waiting for the day I get on the piano or a guitar at a tournament. But I always, I always try to, I always try to leave if I see one. So too embarrassed to do that, but,
Alison Brown: oh, Charlie, now you’ve given me a goal.
Charlie Cooper: Oh.
Alison Brown: I will see you in LA and I’ll read piano.
Charlie Cooper: Oh no.
Alison Brown: Charlie Cooper, thank you so much. It’s been a lot of fun.
Charlie Cooper: Thank you.
Jill Jaracz: Thank you so much, Charlie. We, you know, we, we plan this to put on before Wimbledon. There’s no boys wheelchair division at Wimbledon this year.
Alison Brown: Well, it’s still tennis, it’s still Wimbledon, Charlie, apparently you and I will just be watching it on television together virtually.
Jill Jaracz: But that gives him plenty of time to gear up for the hard court season.
And he’s looking to defend his title at the US Open in September. Follow Charlie on Insta at Charlie j Coop. We will have a link to that in the show notes, but. If you are watching wheelchair tennis at Wimbledon, we’ve got another conversation that will help you enjoy.
Dr. Thomas Rietveld on wheelchair tennis chairs
Jill Jaracz: We’re talking chairs we’re talking with, Dr. Thomas REIT Felt, who is a researcher at the Peter Harrison Center for Disability Sport at Borough University in the uk. We originally scheduled the interview to talk about work that he did that helped change rules for wheelchair rugby going forward.
And then we found out that he also has done a lot of research on wheelchair tennis chairs. So naturally we talked about that as well. And we are, Bringing that conversation to you here. Dr. REIT Felt’s PhD thesis was on wheelchair tennis, And it was called Wheeling performance in wheelchair tennis, understanding and improving a complex skill. So we had to ask him about that. Take a listen.
Jill Jaracz: I have a random wheelchair tennis question. Have you ever looked at how clay affects the chair and then the player’s ability to move the chair?
Dr. Thomas Rietveld: yeah, that’s actually an interesting one because the, um, well the Paralympics were played on clay, uh, because Ronan goers is on clay. so there has been quite a bit of focus on, on clay, wheelchair tennis, and also there’s more and more focus on grass wheelchair tennis as well with Wimbledon play playing on grass.
And there’s more and more wheelchair tennis tournaments leading up to Wimbledon, with, uh, queens and eastborne. And there are, some of them are still like exhibition matches, but more and more of these tournaments are including wheelchair tennis in their programs as well. So we actually, We work with some of the GB wheelchair tennis players to indeed look at different chair settings to see if we can, well push them a bit more to the limit on, on clay and on grass as well.
Um, so there has been a collaboration with the LTA here in Great Britain and, Well, the main thing is to create a bit more grip on, on those cords because if you, if you’re, if you’re pushing on a clay cord, and you try to make a rotation and you do that really quick, then you might slip or drift over the court.
and well, to make sure that you’re not well skidding that much and, and keeping that grip on the court. You might actually. Choose to maybe reduce your tire pressure a bit or use a slightly thicker fret of your tire just to create a bit more grip, especially if you go through those corners. which you do a lot in wheelchair tennis because in wheelchair tennis you’re constantly making small rotations to anticipate for an opponent making a shot.
so it’s especially about the trade off between creating grip and moving around the court. but in wheelchair tennis as well. The, well, if you look at some of the Dutch players, they make some in incredible wheelchairs as well, which are fully customized. the only thing is that they’re quite expensive to, produce.
Um, so it’s not accessible at all, but I think that in general the chairs are looking amazing.
Alison Brown: Dutch Dutch do pretty well in wheelchair tennis in Neils bank. It just,
Dr. Thomas Rietveld: yeah, the, the women and the courts do. Yeah. It’s group do, do really well. Yeah. Adidas, she’s, she’s, she’s just recovering from, from an operation that she had.
but she will, she will be back at the top pretty soon, I suppose.
Jill Jaracz: What does grass do to a chair or the maneuverability versus, say, a hard court?
Dr. Thomas Rietveld: so grass is a lot more tough to push on. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried it yourself. I tried it myself, just because I wanted to experience it as well.
But you can see it in testing as well, because we did a couple of field tests on, on cross, and we did them on hardcore as well. And if you, if you do two strong pushes on hardcore, then you can just go on for, I don’t know, four courts and you’re still rolling. but if you’re on grass and you do two strong pushes, then.
You’ll be standing still before you hit the net. so there’s, there’s a lot more resistance on a grass court, especially if there’s actually still grass on the court. ’cause if you look at the, if you look at the baseline, at the end of tournaments, and that’s usually when the wheelchair tennis players come on court because they, they’ve got a, a smaller draw.
So a lot of the baseline is gone during the tournament, but so, on grass, there’s that trade off between the baseline, which is quite, is getting closer to a hardcore, but then there’s these patches as well, uh, with grass, where you also pushing up. But on grass, you want to make sure that you’re not digging into the core too much.
So, especially if you look at the little caster wheels that you’ve got in front, if those are too small, well, usually they have quite small caster wheels, but for grass it might make sense to pick slightly bigger, thicker caster wheel just to make sure that you’re not digging into the cord and actually keep on rolling.
So on grass, it’s a bit of the same as a clay cord as well. You want to, to make sure that you’re, grippy. But it’s a lot more tough to push on and it will be a lot more straining to the players. But again, if you, if you look at wheelchair tennis, it’s also dominated by research in, in the man division.
there is some research in, in women and court, as well. But it’s, it’s, it’s limited. And it’s all dominated by hardcore as well. There’s so little out there on grass and clay courts, so there’s, there’s still a lot to learn in that, in that area.
Alison Brown: So it feels like with your research. Is something that happens whenever we do an interview where we say, put it on the list.
It’s like, it, one field of research leads to 10 more questions that you wanna explore. Yeah.
Dr. Thomas Rietveld: Yeah. And it’s, it’s some, it’s sometimes quite dangerous as well because you’ve got all these amazing ideas and indeed if you do one, then you end up with framework and. You can’t do all of it. that’s why it’s usually a team of e effort as well.
And, um, I feel quite blessed here working at the Peter Harrison Center, for disability support with Vicki Tolley, who’s, who’s leading our, our research here. And she’s so supportive of also, getting students involved and getting research assistants involved. and. PhD students, PhD students are the key to get research forward because they usually do a project for three years and they can really delve into a topic.
And if you do that for three years, then you usually do a lot of good stuff. so yeah, PhD students are, are key to, to get your research moving forward and we just help to facilitate them.
Alison Brown: Thank you very much Dr. Feld. Always good to talk science and, and get to geek out on wheelchair sports.
Dr. Thomas Rietveld: Yeah. Thank you very much for inviting me. It was, it was lovely to, to talk about wheelchair rugby and wheelchair tennis as well.
Jill Jaracz: Thank you so much, Dr. Feld. We’ll have a link to the Peter Harrison Center for Disability Sport in the show notes, and you can learn more about that organization.
Milano Cortina 2026 News
Jill Jaracz: Bon, uh, we are getting closer and closer to Milan Cortina 2026. it’s getting to be like nine months away. Less than nine months.
Alison Brown: Shushie!
Jill Jaracz: Okay. also shushie is are the Russians. Uh, the International Luge Federation has voted to continue the exclusion of Russian athletes from FIL competitions, so they will not be able to qualify for Milan Cortina 2026, a further vote.
Was conducted to see if the members of the FIL wanted to develop a neutral athlete program. Again, denied yet.
During the vote, which took place at the FIS Congress, Their Athletes Commission presented the results of an athlete survey about the matter. And there were arguments on both sides of the issue for exclusion and inclusion.
And the topics they brought up included safety, Olympic quotas, anti-doping, compliance, and fairness. So it’s interesting the issues that the athletes are really concerned about, and I, I will say like. Sochi 2014 coming back to haunt you guys.
Alison Brown: Yeah. I mean you dope. And people don’t forget. And then there was the whole issue when we were in Beijing for the Paralympics, that there was a real problem in the village with the Russian athletes after that first invasion.
Mm-hmm. Um, they sort of danced around what was happening, but there was a lot of tension. So I guess there is concern about there being a lot of tension if Russian athletes are there.
Jill Jaracz: so no Russian athletes for luge. also Milan, Corina has revealed the art posters. I. For the event, there are 10 posters total, five for the Olympics, five for the Paralympics.
Each was created by a different emerging Italian artist under the age of 40 who was part of the 2023 Triannual Milano’s Main exhibit Pit, Italian og. Nice. The posters and the torches will be on exhibit at the piano Pargo galleries at the Triannual Milano from June 19th right now to March 15th, 2026. These are not the only posters for the games. The iconic poster launch is coming in September.
Alison Brown: Okay, good. Because these were, oh, these didn’t have a lot to do with the Olympics and the Paralympics.
Jill Jaracz: I found them to be very, very underwhelming.
Alison Brown: Agreed. There was one that had the Olympic rings in an ice cream cone, but we were all upset by that one ’cause it wasn’t really lined up properly.
Jill Jaracz: Well, not only not lined up properly, so, ’cause you noticed this, we posted this in the group, the Facebook group, that the bottom two rings slash scoops of gelato would not have fit into the ice cream cone at all.
And then I believe listener Don noticed that the rings are out of order.
Alison Brown: The colors are wrong.
Jill Jaracz: Yes, the colors are wrong. Which again, now I can’t unsee that. And that was my favorite design out of the bunch, if you can believe that.
Alison Brown: A lot of them were art posters. I didn’t see the connection except for one of them.
One of the Paralympic poster had these squared off sit skis. we have to include this in the show notes because this one is the most terrifying. If you look at these sit skiers, it looks like a child’s drawing of a witch on a sit ski, and they have these sort of penciled expressions on their faces like, I’m gonna get ya.
Jill Jaracz: That one is terrifying. There’s an Olympics one where somebody, uh, it’s like a big head lying on its side with hands are, are they dreaming? And the their head is around, uh, encircled by a yellow ring. And then in smaller rings of the other colors are different sports. There’s one, uh, of a picture of the, dolomite mountains and.
Very, very tiny skier, very, very tiny skater holding a torch and a very, very tiny hockey player. It, that was the only other one that was really sporty to me, and they just, they gotta look better in
Alison Brown: person. Well, a lot of them are very beautiful artistically. But I didn’t see the connection. Well, I know you’re making a face.
I liked some of them just as a, an art poster, but the connection was lost on me. Okay. So after Paris where we had that wild, where’s Waldo poster, which I actually came to love. I have to go back and I wonder what I said at first. I probably thought I was in a drug fueled, where’s Waldo book? But I really came to love it ’cause we saw it everywhere.
Mm-hmm. They really used that a lot. Milan has a lot to live up to. But you think the Italians would be doing better on design?
Jill Jaracz: Yeah. And so I’m hopeful that the iconic poster is much better. Well, I don’t wanna say that. Well, I do wanna say that I hope better and different.
Alison Brown: Thank goodness for Milo and Tina.
They hit it out of the park with the mascots. Yes.
Jill Jaracz: Can we have an art competition with Milo and Tina? Posters. I would love that. I would love that heart poster with them. Um, I am coming off of Paris with the Where’s Waldo poster. I am curious to see what they will do because the Where’s Waldo was definitely a completely different direction than every other Olympic poster and.
Say what you will about that. I, it was, it is kind of cool, because it does make you look and think and, and take it all in, and it really, the summer games actually kind of felt like that
Alison Brown: when I
Jill Jaracz: think back on that. It did,
Alison Brown: yeah. Right. It, it encompassed that whole environment, the, the mood they were trying to create.
Jill Jaracz: So we shall see, but we’ve got some art to look at for the time being. Also, if you would like to be a volunteer at the Olympics, closing ceremonies or Paralympics opening ceremonies, they’re looking for. People to apply. Now, this will be, taking place in Verona at the stadium there. Auditions will be in Verona this fall.
You must be at least 18 years old by September 30th. No experience necessary, but you have to be able to attend rehearsals. The Olympics rehearsal will be at the beginning of February, and we’ll run through the 22nd, which is the date of the closing, and then the Paralympics. Rehearsals will be at the end of February to March 6th, which is the opening ceremony state.
And we will have a link in the show notes so I could audition for the Paralympic one, ‘
Alison Brown: cause that won’t cross with the show. Yeah,
Jill Jaracz: you could. I could.
International Olympic Committee News
Jill Jaracz: big news from the IOC on Olympic Day, which is the anniversary of the. Creation of the International Olympic Committee. The 12 year run of Thomas Bach as IOC President ended and he handed over the ceremonial keys to the Olympic House to new President Kirsty Coventry.
- He got a little choked up. I saw that. Did you see that? I did. Yeah, because I just, I would expect, yeah, I mean it hits a me, he has so much passion for the Olympics, and I think it’s good that an athlete runs the games
Alison Brown: well, certainly an athlete, I mean, certainly an athlete like, like Bach, who had so much additional experience.
Right. He was an athlete and then he did all that management stuff in, in the German Olympic committee. And he was involved in a bid and he was involved with, fencing and athletes commission. And so when he got the job, he was not a newbie,
Jill Jaracz: correct. And Kirsty Coventry, although she is quite young, she’s in her forties comparatively.
I think Thomas Bach is now in his seventies, so, he started either when in his late fifties or early sixties. but Kirsty Coventry has also been very much involved with sports administration. Since she retired from swimming, and I think that her being in many different commissions of the IOC has given her that same kind of grounding and basis to find ways to lead the organization moving forward.
Alison Brown: I think it’s gonna be exciting. I didn’t realize how young her children are. I know one’s just, uh, is not even a year old. One is seven months and the other is a toddler. So I think that also brings a whole new dimension Yes. To the room when you have a young mother and how that dynamic is going to be.
And they’ve talked a lot about making changes for parents who are athletes and how can we balance that. And she can say, I feel you. I mean, she knows what this is like every day.
Jill Jaracz: Exactly. And that’s, and as athletes get older. We need those kind of accommodations and that kind of thinking because I mean back, even when she competed, not that many athletes competed into their thirties and forties.
Unless you were a shooter or an equestrian, basically. Right? You did.
Alison Brown: You didn’t. You saw a handful of women, women coming back after pregnancy, but it was always a big deal. Oh my goodness. She had a baby. It’s like she’s lost her entire athletic ability.
Jill Jaracz: Mm-hmm.
Alison Brown: Look at her go and now we see it so much more frequently as it and women competing pregnant, which is amazing.
Jill Jaracz: So it, it will be interesting to see what she brings. We will be doing some look back at, uh, Thomas Bach in future episodes, so be tuned in for that.
TKFLASTAN News
Alison Brown: Welcome to Stan.
Jill Jaracz: It is the time of the show where we check in with our team, keep the flame alive. These are past guests and listeners of our show Who make up the citizenship of our very own country Shook Stan first up
Alison Brown: at the US Paralympics Swimming National Championships Mackenzie Cohen took second in the women’s a hundred free S one through S 14 and third in the 53 S one through 13.
Olivia Chambers took first in the Women’s 200, IM SM five through 14, and also the a hundred breast, SB four through nine and SB 11 through 14. And Ellie Marks took first in the Women’s a hundred back S one two S six 14, and first in the Women’s 50 Fly S six,
Jill Jaracz: who was not there was Paris swimmer, Jamal Hill, but he was in Lau.
With the LA 2028 Athletes Council for the International Athletes Forum there, and then he went swimming in Lake Geneva. I know. Tough life.
Alison Brown: Jamal Tough life Pole vaulter. Katie Moon won the Paris Diamond League event
Jill Jaracz: and Team Schuster has been named to the team. Allianz Roster of Winter Athlete Ambassadors, as has Mike Schultz whose memoir reread for book club.
Coming Soon – Get in Touch!
Jill Jaracz: That’s gonna do it for this episode. Let us know what you think about wheelchair tennis,
Alison Brown: and we do love hearing from you. You can chat with us and other listeners on our Facebook group. Keep The Flame Alive Podcast. Email us at Flame Alive pod@gmail.com. The voicemail and text line is always open at 2 0 8 3 5 2 6 3 4 8.
2 0 8, flame it. And if you need more Olympics and Paralympics in your life and who doesn’t sign up for our newsletter@flamealivepod.com, we’ll have a link to that in the show notes.
Jill Jaracz: Next week we will be looking at Paris 2020 fours initial Legacy. So if you love those games, you will want to hear what’s been going on since the call done went out and, and just a warning, just start looking at plane tickets right now.
That’s all I have to say. Thank you so much for listening, and until next time, keep the flame alive.