Nicole Langevin, gymnastics choreographer. Photo courtesy of Nicole Langevin.

Episode 259: Gymnastics Choreography with Nicole Langevin

Release Date: October 28, 2022

Ever wonder what goes into creating an Olympic gymnastics floor routine? Choreographer and gymnastics judge Nicole Langevin joins us to explain some of the required elements and how gymnasts pack them into a minute-and-a-half.

Among Nicole’s routines include TKFLASTANI Chellsie Memmel’s comeback routine and TKFLASATNI Houry Gebeshian’s Rio 2016 routine. Nicole told us the story behind Houry’s routine. See it in action:

What’s the routine Nicole could watch over and over again? Shannon Miller’s Barcelona 1992 routine – complete with scrunchie glory:

A quick Barcelona 1992 aside, courtesy of Olympedia: Shannon Miller got a bunch of medals at Barcelona 1992. Team USA got bronze, and then Shannon got silver in the all-around, bronze on uneven bars, tied for silver in balance beam, and was in a three-way tie for bronze in floor exercise (the only event she didn’t medal in was vault, in which she placed 6th). Who finished 7th in that floor exercise event? Oksana Chusovitina, who was competing in her first Games. Chusovitina is one of our favorites because she’s competed in every Games since then (EIGHT OLYMPICS! AS A GYMNAST!), and she’s currently training to qualify for Paris 2024.

Back to our episode. So trends in gymnastics come and go depending on the Code of Points, which is the document that says what point value every move is worth and is what gymnasts, coaches and choreographers use to develop their routines. One of our least favorite trends at the moment is the wolf turn. We talk with Nicole about them and why they’re so divisive. Don’t know what a wolf turn is? Take a look:

Follow Nicole and learn more about her services:

If Nicole has choreographed your routine, we’d love to hear about it! Did you use Nicole’s favorite David Garrett cover?

In our Albertville 1992 history moment, Alison has the story of these Games’ enormous medals, made by Lalique, and the trend they started.

Plus, Paris 2024 has announced its plans for the Paralympics Opening Ceremony, and they are cool!

How will LA 2028 compete with this? Maybe they’ll bring back this guy:

Thank you to our patrons – we’re testing out new benefits, so get in on the action at Patreon.

Thanks so much for listening, and until next time, keep the flame alive!

Photos: Courtesy of Nicole Langevin


Note: This is an uncorrected machine-generated transcript. It contains errors. Please do not quote from the transcript; use the audio file as the record of note. If you would like to see transcripts that are more accurate, please support the show.

Jill: [00:00:00] Hello, fans of TKFLASTAN, and welcome to another episode of Keep the Flame Alive, the podcast for fans of the Olympics in Paralympics. I am your host, Jill Jaracz, joined as always by my lovely co-host, Alison Brown. Alison, hello, How are you?

Alison: I can walk around like a normal person. Hey, and maybe. I could go try the beam again.

Jill: are you ready to balance on that foot?

Alison: I am ready to balance on that foot and I, I love the beam and I love the floor. Those were, in my very childish mind, always my favorites. Mm-hmm. . So I am so excited about today. .

Jill: Yes. We are talking gymnastics, which is very exciting. How far did you get in your gymnastics?


Alison: not very far. I was like a just a club level. Gymnastics and the the levels were different back in the day.

Jill: How so?

Alison: That each Olympic cycle there were more levels cuz they would reshuffle them. So I think when I was there it was, I mean, I, I stopped competing when I was 13.

Okay. So, I mean, this was a really, really long time ago, but I wanna. There was maybe five levels at the time. Oh, wow. Okay. And now there’s 10. And it was the reverse. So one

Jill: was the, the top level

Alison: one was the top. And of course someone’s gonna correct me and, and tell me I’m wrong. So this was back. in the, early eighties.

That’s how far back we’re going. . So, because I seem to remember like making level three optional. Oh, okay. Like, that’s what I remember being where I stopped, which is pretty low. But I did get to make up a routine. Oh, that’s

Jill: cool. Was exciting.

Alison: No, I was definitely one of those girls and of the time the coach just gave it.

Oh, I couldn’t even tell you what the music was. I had never heard the music before and I just only competed at once, and that was the end of my career.

Jill: Well, too bad you didn’t have Nicole Langevin in your corner . I know. So today we are talking with Nicole Langevin. She is a gymnastics judge, choreographer and co-owner with TKFLASTANI Chellsie Memmel of My Gym Judge llc. She’s written for gymnastics publications such as International Gymnast. Inside Gymnastics and technique, and she lectures at National and International Congresses on gymnastics judging. Nicole runs clinics and workshops aimed at raising the level of artistry in gymnastics. She is also the founder of Precision Choreography and has created programs for Olympians.

Alicia Sacramone, Chellsie Memmel, and TKFLASTANI Houry Gebeshian. We spoke with Nicole about what it takes to take, to put together a gymnastics floor routine. Take a listen.

Alison: Hi Nicole, and thank you for joining us today.

Nicole Langevin: Thank you for having me.

Alison: I wanna start at the very beginning of how do you start working with a gymnast who calls you? How does that.

Nicole Langevin: So I’m assuming you’re talking about for choreography? For choreography, absolutely. Yeah. So, for people who are not familiar with the gymnastics world, besides every four years of the Olympics gymnast across all levels, starting in level six going up and in another program called Excel we could go into all the different programs, but basically about halfway through their gymnastics career, they will have the opportunity to have their own choreography.

A lot of them have to do a standardized routine that goes, you know everybody in the entire country follows. And then it’s like a rite of passage when they get out of those levels and get to have their own routines. So I do get a lot of excited kids that are getting their first routine ever and they finally get to, have their own personality show.

And I don’t take that lightly. I remember that feeling. I. The excitement of getting my sixth floor routine, it never goes away. Getting a new routine is just one of the, the coolest days in a gymnast life. And they typically get new ones about every two years. So when athletes are approaching me, they could, this could be the very first one or they could be, getting ready for the Olympic stage.

It’s runs the gambit. And what I want to always, always remember is, number one, how exciting and important it is to them. And number two, I’m a judge also, and I know that they have a minute to a minute and a half. To show who they are, to show why they shine so brightly. And so we wanna make sure, and when I say we, I, I have other choreographers that I work with under my company, Precision [00:05:00] Choreography.

And we make sure that we do our research before we ever meet the athlete in the gym or virtually. And so we’ve got a questionnaire that we have them fill out. And what’s really great about that is it sends the message to them right away that they are a part of the process. And that it’s not just a bunch of adults getting together and saying, Here, this is what you’re doing.

If anybody’s ever seen American Anthem, you’ll get that reference. And and then we also, we look at their old videos. From a judging standpoint, I can watch a video and I can know, Okay, this is what we wanna showcase and this is what we want to hide in order to maximize scoring potential.

Getting them on board and feeling like it is their routine via the questionnaire and the questions that we ask. And also researching their, their past performances and figuring out which direction we need to go. What are we highlighting and, and what are we maybe hiding if we need to.

Jill: Are there countries that do prescribe routines for their gymnast?

Nicole Langevin: I can’t speak to that because I don’t live there or work there. But I, I would think that it is, it is going on. I mean, there are, and it’s not necessarily a bad thing, right? This is just, this is my perspective and this is what, what I believe the way that it should be.

And I think that the athletes should have complete say in what they’re doing with the guidance of the professionals around them who know, you know what’s gonna score best. So, you know we’re not gonna let them go out there and do something that we know is not gonna work. Right. So there is a, there is a balance in there.

I know when I was a gymnast, I was allowed to choose my music. It had to be approved by the coach, but I was allowed to choose it. But I also know other athletes who their coaches said, This is your music and you’re doing so and so’s routine from two years ago. She’s gonna come teach it to you.

Boom, you’re done. So it just depends on, on the coach really.

Alison: Okay. So how do you end the athlete and the coach choose music.

Nicole Langevin: A lot of times they will come to us with their music already selected, but often time or sometimes they will come and they will choose music from our music library. And sometimes, like just recently, I received a music choice from an athlete and then I looked at her video and I just thought to myself, this is not gonna do her justice.

And that’s different than me not liking the music cuz if I don’t like the music, that doesn’t matter. I still need to do my job. I listened to this song and I just felt like this is a song that a lot of people use when they’re not really great dancers and it kind of, they think it’s gonna distract from that.

There’s a preconceived notion with this particular song, In looking at the video of the athlete, I just thought she’s got way more to give than, than what this song offers. So I called the parent and I respectfully just shared my opinion and they were very grateful. And then we worked together to find a song.

Basically, I, I went and sent them about four that I thought were really good for her, and ultimately the athlete picked one out of those, and that’s what we’re gonna be doing next week. So why

Alison: so much Eastern European folk?

Nicole Langevin: You know I I think there has always been a little bit of pandering to the host country.

And so look at Dominique Moceanu’s, routine Devil Went Down to Georgia. I mean, that was at the Atlanta Olympics. Come on. So, and it works, you know there have definitely been athletes from other countries. There was a Romanian athlete, I believe, that did a it was like a medley of American folk music.

And it was like, because the competition, I think it was possibly world championships or something was happening in the US and the commentators even made a joke about it. So I think that happens a lot. I I also think that, people go with what they’re comfortable with. So if that style of music is working for an athlete or a group of athletes, the coach might tend to continue to use that type of music.

Alison: So what kind of music say works with a girl who is a very good dancer.

Nicole Langevin: Well, good dancer can mean that they’re very graceful and balletic. It can also mean that they’re great at hip hop. So, that’s a very broad term. and that’s something that’s a misconception that we get a lot where coaches, parents, gymnasts ask a lot of times, What, what kind of routines do judges like?

And I say, we like great routines. It doesn’t matter what style. So as long as the style of music is suited to the style that the athlete excels in, that’s what’s going to work. And I often joke that in judging, you know we’re kind of like food critics, right? A food critic goes to a restaurant, they. Try a bunch of food and then they have to give a review.

Well, we are watching a bunch of routines and then we give our review. And if a food critic is not really into seafood, they still have to be able to recognize a great salmon dish and they still have to give it the credit that it deserves. So, we can watch routines and maybe we don’t like the style quote unquote.

It’s not our job to impart our opinion. If they’re a great dancer in whatever style they choose, then that’s ultimately what’s going to score the best. There’s the tumbling as well, which is separate, but I would say, back to your question, what type of music for a good dancer, it’s gotta be the style that they’re a good dancer in.

Do you think

Alison: that does hold true though at the most elite levels? Or do you think you know international judges do tend to to like the [00:10:00] old school, or is that changing.

Nicole Langevin: I am not an international judge and I, I do know some but I don’t know that I can answer to that. But what I can tell you is there is a huge movement in gymnastics right now of trying to codify artistry, trying to actually make it a black and white thing because of that very question.

And that conception, I don’t even wanna call it a misconception, cuz it could be true, but it also could be a misconception. So there’s a big push right now. There’s a lot of judges’ education that’s going on worldwide to help judges identify artistry. A bunch of years back, Cir de Sole was involved as I believe as consultants kind of helping to explain what is art, what should you be looking for, not what particular.

But what components should you be looking for? And now for the first time, there’s actually a checklist that the judges use at the elite level to rate artistry. And it has things to do with, their footwork, their posture and carriage. Again, that, that’s only at the elite level. So at the I don’t, I guess call it amateur levels, for lack of a better term.

There’s not that checklist. We are still in that world of subjectively deciding whether something is quote unquote artistic or not.

Alison: Okay. So when putting together a floor routine, we’ve got gymnastic passes, the acrobatic passes, and then the rest of the routine. So if, can you just break down a little bit about what makes up Yep.

A, a floor.

Nicole Langevin: Yeah, so every floor routine is going to have a series of what are called special requirements. So special requirements simply mean you have to do these four things in order for your routine to start from a 10, and it’s different for every level. So those special requirements are a combination of requirements of tumbling and dance elements.

And dance elements means leaps, jumps, and turns. They do all those four things successfully. Their routine will start from a 10. Now, within that, they also have to have difficulty value.

They have to have four skills that are rated in a four skills that are rated a b. They have all of those things. They start from a 10 if they’re missing one of those. So let’s say they do a tumbling pass and they do, out of all their sotos, they only have two different ones. They don’t have a third different Soto.

Their start value, the highest that they can get will drop down to a 9.5. Then we have in our higher levels level nine and 10. So for level nine, their special requirements, meaning they meet everything that they’re supposed to do, puts them at a 9.7 start value, and then they have to combine things to get bonus to start from a 10 level 10.

If they hit all of their special requirements, they hit a nine, five start value, and then they have to earn five tenths of bonus. So all of those things come from actual skills they come from. Again, tumbling leaps, jumps and turns. So we know when we’re choreographing a routine, what level they are. We find out are you doing two tumbling passes or three, because you can work the system a little bit.

And again, everybody’s different in how they fulfill their requirements. We find out what type of leap passage they’re doing, what type of turn they’re doing, and then we listen to our music and we essentially create a map with the timing of the music, and there’s no black and white to it. So you know when I do it, I go through and the first thing I do is I place the tumbling passes where I want them.

And I have to know as an athlete, okay, I need, I can’t do a tumbling pass, and then four seconds later do another one because I, first of all, I need to breathe. And then second of all, as a choreographer, I have to go, All right, I gotta get her to the other side of the floor. So she’s tumbling out of a different diagonal.

So I know I need a minimum of eight seconds and I can go all the way up to 20 seconds of not tumbling, right? So I place my tumbling passes where I want them first, then I go back and I figure out where do I want the leap, where do I want the turn? Are there any other jumps? I place those and then I’m left with sections that need to be choreographed from there.

Alison: Okay? So at the Olympic level, We’re seeing three tumbling passes.

Nicole Langevin: well, a lot of times you’re seeing four four but yeah, three or four depending on the

Alison: athlete, and then they have to go from different corners mm-hmm. . And then what kind of other special requirements are in that level?

Nicole Langevin: So, again, I’m not an elite judge, so I don’t even wanna try to, I’m gonna be relatively vague with you. But they do have to have, they’re different. Okay. So, elite gymnastics does not start from a 10 anymore. I don’t know if you guys have noticed that these weird 13 point whatevers. And so what they’re doing is they’re being evaluated by two different panels of judges.

There’s an E Panel and there’s a D panel. The E Panel. is judging from a 10 and E stands for execution. So all they’re doing that E Panel is watching and taking deductions for how well or not well things are being done. So they’re looking at amplitude of skills. They’re looking at [00:15:00] execution, which means straight legs, point of toes, things like that.

Body position, if they’re straight, are they perfectly straight? if they’re piked, are they piked enough? And then they’re looking at landing. So they’re deducting from a 10. The other table of judges, the, D panel stands for difficulty. That judging panel, all they’re doing is deciding, identifying the skill that the athlete is doing and building up from zero and giving them a difficulty.

So the elite athletes don’t necessarily have the same special requirements to start from a 10. They start from a zero and they put in the elements to build that D-score as high as they possibly can. And that is done through, doing difficult skills. You know some gymnast will, get it in tumbling.

You know Simone was definitely one of those. She still got some dance elements that were really a high level rated, but she was a Tumblr and she used that to her advantage and that’s why she did the passes that she did. Then we have some other gymnasts that are coming out from, the Netherlands and they’re doing two tumbling passes and then they’re doing all these leaps and turns because that’s where they excel and they’re working the code.

They figure out what they can do and they maximize in that area. So, so there’s some freedom there. And they’re, you know what’s hard is they’re trying to get that D-score so high that they’re doing so much stuff and there’s not a lot of room for choreography. It’s really, really tricky to get them to travel across the floor, to get them to cover as much of the floor as possible while doing all of this other stuff.

It’s, it’s very tricky. And then they have to breathe .

Alison: So speaking of breathing, perfect For me, one of the things that I always laugh at is the pause in the corner with the various arm action to make it look like they’re actually doing something. But what they’re really doing is prepping for their tumbling pass.

Nicole Langevin: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. The corner, The corner rules are they’re the bane of many choreographers, existence, and athletes as well. The powers that be, that decide what the code of points is going to be. They upgrade this every quad. They change the rules. And basically, my understanding of it, if you ask me, even though I’m not on this board, they look at what everybody’s doing and once they think it’s people have mastered it, they go, Oh, it’s too easy.

We gotta make it harder. And then they do. And then everybody rises to that level because they’re amazing. And then they go, Oh, you guys can do that. All right, we gotta make it harder. So when this big push of artistry started happening around 2012 is when it really was becoming more of a priority.

One of the things that they decided was that standing in the corner and preparing takes away from artistry and that there should be a seamless transition between dance and acrobatic. . And so now they’re telling them all these weird rules, like you can’t, you can’t be on two feet, but if you’re a junior you can be on two feet, but only in one pass before you tumble.

You can’t come at the diagonal in a straight line and then tumble back. You have to curve yourself in and and be on one foot and I mean, it’s just crazy. I don’t think it makes it more artistic. I think it just makes it annoying to choreograph and hard for them to do. I honestly think the next thing they’re gonna say is, Oh, you guys could do that now.

I need you to close your eyes. Hold your breath and tumble, because what? I don’t know where else they can go from here.

Alison: There’s this one move that struck me last year in Tokyo in j Carey’s floor routine, where she does this one footed half turn into her tumbling pass. But now that makes sense because it was, Oh, she pauses before she turns and sort of starts into and pass.

But then she goes, but that makes perfect sense. She is delaying that corner moment, that corner pause.

Nicole Langevin: Yep. you know it’s no matter what the, these gymnast, especially at the elite level, are so incredible that they can do whatever is asked of them. They really can, They will figure it out because they’re champions, right?

they’re incredible. But you know the question is, is it really that necessary? I mean, safety wise too, if you have to stop and think, then you need to stop and think for your own safety.

Alison: Are there fads. Or is it just because of the code of points?

Nicole Langevin: Yes and yes. So , So there was a long time ago when I used to compete, it was very, very rare to see front tumbling, forward tumbling.

Everything was round of Beck, handspring, something. Even you look at the 92 Olympics, everybody did. They all did. Round of Beck handspring with whip back, back, handspring, full twisting, double back round, F back handspring, double pike, round F, back handspring, double tuck. It was like it, it became compulsory.

They were all doing the same thing with little variations here and there of course, because that’s what the code of points valued. It didn’t value front tumbling. So why are you gonna go learn it? And for coaches, we have to start this. At the very beginning, you don’t just one day go, Oh, [00:20:00] I’m gonna learn a front layout.

I mean, that, that started from, from the beginning of, of laying the foundation of gymnastics. And so a lot of us, me included, didn’t really train front tumbling that much. And then in, I think it was 93, all of a sudden, oh, a front full is a d and a front layout to C, which in layman’s terms, those front flipping skills, especially with a twist, were rated really high.

And then we all had to figure out how to do them. and so that trend occurred though, and coaches started developing younger athletes to understand how to do that. And now front tumbling is, is a lot more prevalent. The code really dictates what we’re teaching the athletes because of what it’s rated.

You know We have the god awful wolf turn that I heard. One of you is a huge fan of and, oops, neither of us, but you know what, It’s, it’s a, it’s got a high difficulty rating and so you’re gonna work the code, you’re gonna do it. And until it’s not rated as high anymore, we’re gonna see ’em all the time.

Alison: So the wolf turn, I’ll let you explain what that is, cuz I’m sure I would, I would use ridiculous language. So go ahead and,

Nicole Langevin: well, I’ll, I will do it in layman’s terms. If you think of, you know if you’re standing on the ground, put your feet together and then squat down. So your butt is on your heels essentially, so you’re squatting down and then extend one leg straight out to the.

That is the, the beginning of a wolf turn, and then you whip that straight leg in front of you and you spin around in a single leg squat and 2, 3, 3 and a half times. I think the most I’ve seen, well, in competition, I think the most I’ve seen is a three and a half. But people have done way more on, they, they post ’em on Instagram and things like that,

Alison: right?

And you’ll see it both on the beam and on the floor. Why does this annoy so many people? Cause we, thankfully, we are not alone in our despise of the wolf turn. ,

Nicole Langevin: it has been done well. There are a handful of athletes and I wish I came here prepared with names, but I have to say there, there are some that actually make it look nice.

And when they do, it’s like, Oh, okay. That’s what it’s supposed to look like. But the reason I don’t like it is because most of the time, after they get about one and a half times around the arms start flailing and there’s no other skill you would ever put in a routine because these, these coaches in these athletes are very smart.

They put in the skills that they can do close to perfect or perfect. Yet for some reason, these wolf turns because of how they’re judged and rated, still get in there with the arms circling and the whoa as they’re going around. And it’s just, it’s just an eyesore. And I don’t know. It’s a weird position.

Don’t you think it’s squatted down? I don’t know. It’s weird.

Alison: What kind of things do you wish were rated and earned more points that you miss or that you just don’t get to see as much?

Nicole Langevin: There’s, things on beam, There’s rules on beam right now that kind of prevents a lot of creativity and difficulty.

Back in the early and mid nineties, we started seeing a lot of people on balance beam going back handspring to three layout step outs in. And it’s just, it’s so cool. It takes the whole length of the beam. It’s four acrobatic skills, three with no hands in a row. I’m just really like circus style, you know where you you go and appreciate that even if you know nothing about gymnastics.

And now you know, the rule is you can’t do three of the same element in a routine at all. So you’re not even allowed to do that anymore. So I just think there should be some exceptions for things. I understand why that rule is in place because they should be showing a variety of elements, but at a certain point it’s like, if somebody can do that, that is so cool.

There’s also people who have got been able to go round off onto the springboard layout onto the beam, followed by two more layouts and they can’t use it. So I think that the code of points. I know you can’t, It’s like laws, right? Like you can’t make a law that everybody’s gonna be happy with. You can’t make a rule in the code of points that is going to suit every single situation.

And you also can’t say, Oh, well, we’ll decide when the, when it comes up, if we’re gonna give that or not. So I you know I don’t know if I have the solution. I just wish that things like that were still able to be done.

Alison: Is there anything that you are wishing would go away besides the wolf turn? ,

Nicole Langevin: those wishing would go away?

Alison: Or what are you bored with seeing so much of?

Nicole Langevin: There are things at the elite level where it seems a little redundant. Some of the tumbling passes, and again, this isn’t a dig at the athletes because they’re, they’re smart to do it. But, seeing somebody do a full twisting. Double pike, and then a full twisting double tuck, and then a double pike, and then a double tuck.

Like it just kind of becomes like you’re just doing four versions of essentially the same root skill. So things like that, it, it would be nice, I think, if, if floor required a little bit more variety in the tumbling. But again, I, I’m not the one that has to do it [00:25:00] so , it’s kinda crappy for me to say that, but, you know as a, as a spectator, Other than that yeah, there’s a, leg up hop, full turn.

So basically like if you were standing and you lift one leg in front of you horizontal and put your arms over your head, if you picture that position in the air and spinning, that’s one that again, there’s a couple people that do it, and it actually looks nice, but in general, to me, it just looks like a timer for something.

I don’t know. I don’t . I don’t like that one either. But again, when it’s done well, it’s really impressive. And I just really love gymnastics. So, it’s hard to really go more than those couple of things. What

Alison: dance elements or things in choreography are a lot more difficult that the average viewer wouldn’t realize how hard they are?

The tumbling passes are obvious. I mean, yeah, if you’re flipping yourself upside down three times and spinning in the air, we all know that’s hard. Mm-hmm. . But what else is hard that you may not realize?

Nicole Langevin: All of it really. I mean, just to do a split jump jumping and splitting your legs and not get any deduction for it.

The way that these athletes that we see on TV do it so well, there’s so much that goes into it from a judging standpoint. I can tell you for, for levels one through 10, which is what I judge, just on a single split jump, they can get up to two tens for how high it is in the air. And now that’s a weird one, right?

Because there’s no uh ruler, there’s no measurement system. So that’s a really tricky one when we’re judging amplitude on anything, on sas, on leaps on jumps, because basically anything could always be, Unless you’re Simone Biles, where it’s just like, Wow, she’s still rising, but anything could always be higher.

So that’s a tricky one. But, but it is there. So when they do a split jump, they can get up to two tenths for how high it is. They can get up to a 10th for the posture that they show in the air. They can get uh deduction for the lack of precision in the air. Meaning are their arms in a clear position? Are there hips turned out or are they square enough?

Then up to two tenths for how split they actually are. If they’re just shy of 180. In the elite world, they essentially have to be beyond 180, which is crazy. And then we have up to three tenths for the legs being straight. We have a half 10th for the feet being pointed, and then we’ve got the landing of the skill.

you know are they closing their feet when they land and are they in control when they land? All of that on a. So that’s why I’m saying everything because that’s basically the, the root skill of most of those leaps that you’re looking at. And so to know how much goes into that, and now we’re going, Okay, they’re, switching one leg and then returning it back to hit that split position and then they’re turning and spinning.

And so it really is very, very difficult. All of those leaps and jumps that you’re seeing difficult to do and difficult to do without getting deducted.

Alison: And when you’re building a program and you see a gymnast could do a really beautiful split leap but doesn’t quite have it yet, and maybe is resistant to putting something in, how, how does that back and forth go?

Nicole Langevin: So I have to watch which hat I’m wearing. So as a choreographer, Unless the coach requests, we do not comment on the skill selection, we essentially choreograph around the skills that they tell us that they’re doing. Now, oftentimes they will because they know, well, for me, I’m a, I’m a clinician, so I speak on this stuff all the time.

So it is pretty regular that a coach will say, Hey, can you look at the two leap passes we’re trying and, and let us know which one’s gonna be better, or can you give her some tips on her leap pass or her turn or whatever. So if they ask, then I’ll kind of switch hats into my coaching clinician hat and try to give ’em some tips.

And if, if it’s just not happening, I will try to help them be a little more creative in their skill selection. The problem on floor and beam is that they have to show some sort of split or straddle position in the air somehow, some way. If we can at least get it to, to do it where they can get credit for it.

That’s the first barrier. Then how to do it without getting deduction. So if they try to do a split and it’s just so far away from 180, they risk not getting credit for it at all. And then, like I said at the beginning, their start value drops down five tents. So I do try my best to, to help them find some way to hit either a split or a straddle to at least get credit and then give them the tools to take back to the gym to improve it so it doesn’t get deductions.

Jill: I was gonna ask, what is the surface of the floor like? In that, how hard is it to spin on that? Cause is it gonna kind of like fabricy?

Nicole Langevin: It is. And so you’ll see, speaking of trends, there is a trend now because of the value of turns, there are a lot more athletes wearing socks, believe it or not, on floor, which it freaks me out when I think of tumbling, but clearly they’ve got it under control so that reduces, that, that friction.

Okay. The floor is, it’s either going to be carpet bonded foam. . Now underneath is spring and plywood, but on top is [00:30:00] either carpet, bonded foam, That’s about, I don’t know, what do you guys think? That’s like three inches, four inches thick, something like that. And those are large pieces that are then Velcro together with like a vinyl Velcro strip down the center, or it’s a rug essentially.

It’s not very pilly, but it is definitely a rug. It, it should be pretty talked, so it’s not gonna, bunch up as they turn or anything. But it is very, very different than, you know what we see dancers do when they’re on a, a wood or Marley surface. They don’t spin as fast. And that’s a big part of what I do in a lot of the speeches and coaches education when I talk about dance elements and turns, is that the surface that we’re on is very different.

So I’m really glad that you asked that cuz it does change the game. A lot of people will try to directly take ballet technique and implement it into the dance elements on floor and it’s, it’s a different surface. You just don’t spin as fast. And so those techniques of whipping the head around and this and that, they’re not necessarily gonna work the same way as they do for somebody that’s on a, a floor and actually spinning the balance beam is a lot more similar to that though.

Alison: Is there ever a reason that you wouldn’t work with a particular gymnast?

Nicole Langevin: No, I don’t think so. I, I’m Is there ? It’s never happened. I can’t imagine why.

Alison: How about a particular coach?

Nicole Langevin: Yes, . Absolutely.

Alison: Okay, so absolutely. Let’s talk a little bit about is issues in gymnastics coaching when you’re coming into a gym as, as the choreographer?

Nicole Langevin: So, you know sometimes we go to the gym and the coaches are very, very involved in the process and, and they’re asking questions and they’re taking notes and they don’t need to do that because we provide a, a really thorough follow up service to all of our routines.

But it’s wonderful when the coaches are, are there and involved because they’re the ones that are with them every single day that are really gonna help them grow with the routine. And then we go in sometimes, and we never even meet the coach, it’s the athlete and their parent is in the lobby and there’s, you know another class going on somewhere.

So the interaction that we have with coaches is very, very minimal. But as gymnastics professionals, you know we’re mandatory reporters. So if we are in a gym and we see and or hear something that is,

Questionable that is, I’m trying to use the right language here because I, I just took my, my test on this. If we see or hear something that’s essentially detrimental to the athlete, any sort of bullying or emotional, physical abuse, anything like that, we are required to report. And, it’s a really important position to be in, and we are constantly being trained on what to look for, what’s acceptable and what’s not.

So just being in that environment if that were to happen, I would need to report it. And that’s really probably where that relationship would end. I would hope that that coach would be removed and that the, the athletes would be in a better situation because of it. This is, we’re all on the same team as far as wanting the best thing for the athletes.

So, you know we have to be really, really careful about what we’re, what are we noticing, what are we, it’s, you can tell this is a really tough thing to talk about and, and I’ve seen it before and it’s heartbreaking. So, if there’s a coach that I don’t believe is, is good for athletes, I don’t wanna be around that person.

I would prefer that kids weren’t either. But you know, the reality is we, we don’t have as much power as sometimes we would like to. But that really, that would be it. You know There’s a trend right now of really prioritizing athlete wellness. It should have been that way all along. But unfortunately, all the way, and I know it’s still happening, but it’s getting a lot better because we’re talking about it.

But, many coaches work coaching. In a fear-based system, just, those, the athletes were scared to mess up and a lot of them got results that way. They got short term results. But those human beings, when they were done with gymnastics, were not better for it. And had a lot of things to unpack.

And on my show I’ve had many of those athletes on and they’ve talked about it and it’s, it’s heartbreaking to hear as adults the things that they’re still trying to face that happened to them when they were children. And for the fans, all we saw was the glory and not realizing all those things that were happening in the background.

So now those things are coming to light. There’s a lot more education, there’s a lot more awareness, discussion and prioritizing of, of doing it the right way. You can scare anybody younger and smaller. You can scare them cuz you’re bigger and louder and that’s not a skill and that’s not something that is going to send them off into life, ready to succeed.

Alison: Okay. Happier note. Let’s talk about some of your favorites that you’ve seen. Beam and and Floor. So favorites from Tokyo or Favorites you’re seeing this season, going into the World Championships.

Nicole Langevin: Right now [00:35:00] they’re all so freaking awesome. But Shilese Jones is one who is, she’s got such a unique style about her gymnastics, such an ease, her technical prowess, her exactness, just everything about her technically is so refined that it’s, she’s like easy on the eyes.

I don’t know if that makes sense, but like it’s calming to watch her, especially on bars. She’s just got this beautiful swing and these lines and her coaches. Crazy, and I mean this in a good way about technique. They do so many basics and, and you can see it. And she is just an incredible worker.

I interviewed her coach, so this is, you know I don’t know Shilese, but according to her coach is just, her work ethic is incredible. So you put all that together and you get this gorgeous athlete and she’s got really a really cool floor routine. She’s powerful, she’s got nice artistry. So her flexibility, I could go on and on.

So watching her rise recently and really come into the spotlight um even more so than she already had, has been really cool. And I, she’s like, she better be on that world’s team. Who else? There’s a junior right now, Levi Jung-Ruivivar, who I actually interviewed this morning I would dare say is one of the most artistic gymnasts in.

The sport today. And if I just called her a junior, I lied because she is now a senior. She just made her senior debut recently. I really hope that we get to see her on one of those big, big stages cuz her artistry is like breathtaking.

Alison: Is there a floor routine that when you’re feeling bad you just watch cuz you know it’s gonna make you feel better?

Nicole Langevin: Funny enough, I would say not because I think it’s the most artistic and beautiful, but I would go back and watch Shannon Miller from 92. More so for the sentimental aspect of it. I, I was a 12 year old then and watched, I had a VHS tape of every single day of the Barcelona Olympics and watched it over and over.

I can recite verbatim the commentators and her floor routine in Barcelona. Any one of those days. I, I could tell you the score, I could tell you why, I could tell you the skills that are in it any nuances. And it just reminds me of just really the first time that I really felt, wow, like, look at what she’s doing and I wanna do that.

I always knew I wanted to do it, but she, her on floor was just one of the most captivating things for me as a kid. And so that always kind of brings me back to a place of joy.

Alison: Okay. We, we know, I think I can answer this for Jill, but is there a piece of music that you could go the rest of your life and never hear in the gym again?


Nicole Langevin: so many

There’s so many, But you know what, I, I have a rule. I will not say out loud what style I don’t like and what music I don’t like because I judge and I don’t want for, if there’s any reason that a parent of a kid that I judge or a kid hears this, I don’t need that in their head. Cuz like I said at the beginning, it is not our job to impart our opinions on the scores.

We have to recognize greatness when we see it. And we have to, give credit where credit is due despite our personal feelings. So yes, there are a bunch, but I’m not gonna tell you .

Alison: Is there a piece of music you haven’t gotten to use that you’re like, Please, somebody bring this to me.

Like your dream

Nicole Langevin: routine music and gym is together.

I think if there’s like, there’s an artist, David Garrett, who does like these. Do you know who I’m talking about? Yes. He, yeah. So he does these arrangements, these like orchestra. I’m terrible with verbiage for music, and you would laugh because I am literally staring at a full drum, set a bunch of guitars.

My husband’s a musician, he’s gonna kill me, but I don’t know. He does like orchestra versions or symphony versions or something of popular songs like Kll Do Metallica or Guns and Roses, and it’s just gorgeous. So, one of my former athletes, when she got her first floor routine, she was a beautiful, beautiful performer.

I used to date David Garrett Nirvana piece, and till this day, it’s like I, that’s probably my favorite piece of floor music. But I would love for people to bring me more David Garrett pieces.

Jill: a, as a judge, how long does it take you to develop the eye to be able to judge well?

Nicole Langevin: It’s different for everyone because I’ve been in gymnastics since I was five years old. But like my, my dad is French Canadian, right? So I heard French my whole life. So when I went to go learn it, it, it came really quickly.

I just needed to refine some, but I had the ear for it because I had already heard it. And I think that is very similar to becoming a judge. I already had an eye for it. I was doing it, I was coaching it. as a coach, especially, you know what to look for because you’re trying to make sure that the [00:40:00] judges don’t deduct.

So all of that stuff has just been honed over a lifetime. So when it came to becoming a judge, I really just needed to learn the technicalities of it. I kind of already knew what to look for because I was looking for it as a coach. There are judges who were parents of gymnast and then became judges. And so it’s interesting when you take the judging exam, they must keep that question in mind that you had because.

Depending on your experience, that will determine what level you get to test in at, is what they call. So for me, because I went to Level 10 nationals and I coached, up to whatever level, I was able to enter the world of judging as a level nine rated judge, whereas other people had to start at a level four, five, because they were just entering and didn’t really have a lot of that experience.

So, the judging people, they kind of know that, you’re going to understand this quicker, you’re, you already know what you’re looking at because of your experience. But again, if you don’t have that and you can pass the test, then you start at that lower level. You stay there for a year, and then you can test up each year.

And the idea is that with each year of judging, you develop your eye more and more.

Jill: When somebody hires you for a routine, let’s say just at the Olympic level, how much does that cost? Like if we’re, I’m the money person, I always wanna know because we know that sports are expensive. Let’s just, we know that.

But, but what are we talking about? What kind of range does this stuff cost?

Nicole Langevin: the three routines that I did for either people that were going to the Olympics or have been to the Olympics I did for free. Oh, okay. Yeah. that’s not the norm, Uh mm-hmm. . these were people that I was very invested in had a current relationship with.

I didn’t want them to go anywhere else, . But honestly, when it gets to be that level. It’s, it’s almost not even worth it. It’s, it’s really such a, an honor and a joy, and you just to have your work out there on that stage is crazy. And to be able to work with the athletes is kind of payment in itself.

So, I don’t know the going rate to be honest. I kind of come in, in weird ways in everything I do in my life. So I, I didn’t come in, in a traditional way and knock on their door and say, Hey, I’m selling floor routines for $900. . It was, it was a, it was a relationship, a preexisting relationship that developed into them asking me to do them the honor of choreograph in the routines.

And I did.

Alison: You did Houry’s Rio Program?

Nicole Langevin: Yes. Yes,

Jill: Yes. could you walk us through her program, because we interviewed her as well. when you were putting together her program, what strengths did she have or was she bringing to Rio that you wanted to highlight?

Nicole Langevin: Well, first of all, she lied and told me that she’s not a good dancer, , and then you guys have seen the routine, right? I mean, she’s great. I watched her past routines and just had this feeling. I had the same feeling with Alicia Sacramone where they were great, but I’m like, there’s something else in. There’s more artistry in there that’s untapped and I just wanna pull it out.

And so that was number one. I wanted to challenge her and I wanted her to get outside of her comfort zone because I thought she would really shine. But the other thing is, her story is so amazing, as you guys know. So listeners, go back and listen to the J Gian episode so you can hear her story. And I wanted that to be a part of it.

I mean, that’s really who she is, is that story. Not just that she went to the Olympics, but how she did it. And that’s kind of how she approaches everything. And it didn’t come easily and it didn’t happen the first time out. And there’s a whole section in the middle, especially where she’s literally reenacting how close she got the first time she tried and then missed it.

And she’s on her knees and she reaches, and then she reaches just a little further, and then it’s just out of her grasp. And she, she falls onto the ground and she rolls around and then she kind of. Is reborn again, right? For the, for the next attempt. So that was, that was the majority of that routine. It, it was the story of her going against preconceived notions of what that Olympic journey looks like.

Taking matters into her own hands, failing, and I hate to use that word because I don’t think missing out in the Olympics is failing because of how far she did go, But failing at that, that particular goal, and then doing it all over. And that’s, that’s really the story of the routine. And when she competed it in Rio that final section that she does after her last tumbling pass, I’m getting chills even talking about it.

I tear up every single time. And then she goes and kisses the equipment and it’s like, Oh my gosh. But the, the smile on her face, you’ll see she does this like jump spinny thing and she knows she did the routine that she could do. She did that routine at the Olympics, and you can see her smile in the air and it’s so freaking cool.[00:45:00]

Jill: Do judges know the story behind a routine like that, or No? Do they just get a list of elements that

Nicole Langevin: No, no. They don’t get, Do they get anything? No. Nope. That’s, so the DPA is, that’s their job, is to watch and decide what they’re seeing. And then calculating what that is all worth. So, no, they don’t know. You know The good thing is that the most, Oh, I’m gonna go outta limb and say all, all gymnasts are very smart.

And once they’re at that level, they know the code of points. Even gymnasts, I’ve had gymnasts that were level sevens and eights who could do this if they made a mistake ev they would know, Oh shoot, that’s gonna affect my start value I gotta do, And they’ll, they’ll do something else to cover for that in the moment.

So there’s no deduction for that. The judge can’t deduct based on what they think you were trying to do. They just judge what they see. And so it’s good that they don’t, Right. I mean, that’s kind of the, that’s part of the excitement of it. And then also, it makes the judges really have to be on their toes because they can’t assume anything.

Jill: That’s really interesting cuz now I wanna talk to a figure skating judge because, It seems like they know what’s supposed to happen in these programs a little bit more,

so back to the money, cuz I’m gonna ,

Alison: have you learned that the two things that Jill loves talking about? Surfaces and money and

Nicole Langevin: officiating come on. And money is a very surface thing. Yes. Saying

Jill: no, but like seriously when, and a routine’s good for two years, so you’re putting the money over time.

But if somebody’s looking to hire you, what, what kind of budget range? Say for more elite

Nicole Langevin: level?

Jill: Yeah. Are they think, should they think about saving up?

Nicole Langevin: Yeah. So the way that we do our business is we actually don’t charge just for the routine. Mm-hmm. . And we also don’t just provide the routine. So that’s why that’s always a How much time do you have answer to that question?

Mm-hmm. because it’s not you know what I prided myself on when I started Precision, and we still do now as a, as a whole, is we don’t show up, make up the routine on the spot, and then pat ’em on the back and wish ’em good luck and that’s it. We, we want that routine to shine, partially it’s a reflection on us, right?

So somebody goes out there and it doesn’t look that great and then, Oh, well, Precision did it. Well then that’s not good. Right? But more importantly, like I said at the beginning, we know how important this is to the athletes. So we don’t wanna be done with them at the after the session. So we actually, first of all, we do the research beforehand.

We create the routine specifically for that athlete. Then we do the session with them, which is two and a half hours long. We adjust if we need to, and then we provide them with a two week training plan. During those two weeks, they can send in videos, they can get feedback, ask questions. We also give them video tutorials of us teaching the routine.

They also get a video of the choreographer doing the whole routine, not with the skills, but just the choreography. So they have all this stuff that they get. As kind of their toolkit that goes along with their routine. And then further down the line when they start competing, they can actually contact us and do a feedback session with a choreographer and go through and say, Oh, you know it’s over Zoom.

They can do it in person, but people do it over Zoom and go through and go, Okay, that section is looking exactly how we intended it to, let’s take it to the next level. And we’ll actually give them things to spruce up their routine. These are called touch up sessions. So there’s a lot involved. We stay connected with them the entire season and so and beyond.

So with our rates, I mean, depending on the length of music, it’s gonna be anywhere in the low three hundreds to the high 600 s,

Jill: which to me sounds reasonable for how much service you actually provide. I mean, thank you. Like, do you ever look at a routine and go, Wow, that looks like somebody’s mom or dad put it together.

Nicole Langevin: Yeah, all the time. Okay. .

Jill: Cause I would imagine there’s some people like there’s a lot more money to pay. I can do this just as well, but I can imagine it does not look good. .

Nicole Langevin: You know It’s like your taxes, like we all think we can do ’em, but it’s probably better to have a professional do it.

Alison: Thank you so much, Nicole, for joining us on this.

Nicole Langevin: Thank you for having me. I’ll talk about gymnastics all day, as you can see .

Jill: Thank you so much, Nicole. Nicole is the host of the podcast. What Makes You Think, And you can find her on Instagram at Nicole Langevin consultant. She’s also on Facebook, and we will have links to those in the show notes along with a link to Precision Choreographies website and Houry’s routine from Rio, which is absolutely delightful.

I just love watching everything Horror did at Rio, just because she just had a blast. She did so well.

Alison: And when we were getting ready for the interview, I was just gonna re-watch the floor routine. ? No. Once you start watching though, I had to go back and watch the [00:50:00] Kabi and on the bars.

The bars, her, her move. So that’s, she’s a joy to watch. And speaking of watching gymnastics, Gymnastics World Championship starts this weekend, October And we’re gonna see a lot of interesting floor routines.

Jill: That sound means it is time for our history moment all year long. We are looking at at, albertville 1992 as it is the 30th anniversary of those Olympics. Alison, it is your turn for a story. What do you have for me?

Alison: And I can’t believe we’ve gotten all the way to the end of October, and we’ve never talked about the medals , because these medals are incredibly memorable.

So the medals were created by Lalique crystal, legendary French company. And they were composed primarily of glass. If you remember, the whole center is glass with a very thin ribbon of either gold, silver, or bronze at the top and bottom, and the glass was hand etched. Everything was done by hand in both the front and the back with the Olympic rings and the image of a snowy.

Whoa. Hours. Hours to make over 300 medals like this. The design was created by Marie Claude Lalique who was the granddaughter of founder Renee Lalique. It was also Marie Claude’s last major design before her retirement in 1994. Huh. So this was a big deal, and the medals were big. They were 92 millimeters, about three and a half inches, and the medals in the eighties and nineties were generally between 60 and 70 millimeters.

Jill: I wonder if this kind of helped usher in that big medal phase because now the medals are much bigger and you look at something like Montreal 76 in, they’re small and on. Is that the one that’s on a chain or is Munich on a chain? Yes. Okay. So yeah,

Alison: I believe it’s Montreal

Jill: and the Lalique ones are so memorable in that way, as.

Alison: And there’s a very famous picture that was, I believe on the cover of Time and it sort of emphasized the size of the medal cuz Kristi Yamaguchi is holding her medal, and Kristi Yamaguchi’s a very tiny girl. So the medal looks bigger than her head

I think it was really just the perspective of the picture, but whenever these medals come up, a lot of times that that picture comes up. At the time the reviews were. A lot of people loved the fact that they included an alternative material and said it sort of looked like ice. And a lot of people didn’t like that.

You couldn’t see the gold, silver in bronze as clearly. It was very hard to distinguish the colors uh, especially on television. And this was the first time a medal included in an alternate material, but it was not the last. Huh. So Lila Hammerer, Nao, Beijing 2008 and Sochi all continued that tradition of using other things besides the gold, silver bronzes, even though I know it’s not real gold that they’re using, but just looking like the medal.

And they used stone lacker and polycarbonate, Respectively, in their medals. So it was the first, but not the last. For people to wonder which one you won. French

Jill: setting trends as always.

Hey, we would like to remind you that book club is coming up again and we are reading Snowball’s Chance by David Antonucci. That is the story of the 1960 Winter Olympics in California. Pick up your copy at alive pod. We get a commission off of any purchases made through that link and that goes to support the show. So we really appreciate all of you who shop through for us. And let us know what you think of the book. I’ve just started it and uh, I’m very curious to know how Walt Disney has an effect on this.

Alison: You’re getting there. I’m about halfway through and Walt has made an

Jill: appearance. Excellent.

We’ve got a little update from Paris 2024. We actually don’t have a team. Keep the Flame alive. Update this week. All is well in Chla Dawn, but I am going on a little vacation. So we are taping this show ahead of time and really like one day has passed since we’ve taped taped the previous show. So not a ton has happened.

Alison: and I will mention I’ll put some results in the Facebook group, which is Keep the Flame Alive Podcast group as we’re going along and then we’ll catch up.

Jill: Yes, next week we will have more. So, Paris, big announcement about the Paralympics opening ceremony. So, the Olympics opening ceremony, the parade of athletes will take place on Theen and that’s gonna be, Magical.

I, I hope, but so different from anything else they’ve, they’ve ever done in Olympics. And the Paralympics said, [00:55:00] Yeah, we can’t really do that because we have a lot of accessibility issues. So Paris 2024 said, Don’t worry, we’ll come up with something. And they have, they are going to do another ceremony that is, Outside of a stadium and it’s going to be in the center of the city at the plaster, the Concord, with the parade of athletes going down the shpe Lue.

Can you imagine This is gonna be incredible.

Alison: Yeah. I’m so pleased that they came up with something equally grand. And equally as exciting and different for the Paralympics. Exactly.

Jill: And there will be able to be 65,000 spectators. And then when they get to the pla, the LA Concord, there will be four different stages that will have what they call an original configuration that will open up many creative possibilities.

Sometimes they may be used one at a time. Maybe they’ll be used simultaneously. Maybe they’ll use a couple at once, but they’re gonna have a lot of different action going around, and there’s gonna, there’s a little video about it. We’ll post a link to that in the show notes.

The seating configuration was kind of all over the place. So athletes would walk down the shpe, they’d kind of walk around the pla, the concord, but there might be different sections of seeding with not everybody seeing the pla Concord Os as their main focal point. So it’s not like a theater in the round kind of thing.

There’s gotta be different configurations going.

Alison: I can’t even imagine this. I don’t have the, well a day. I’ve never been to Paris, but this is the same spot where the Tor de France ends. You know that? Mm-hmm. that ride down the Char Villa and around the circle and through the, So I have a television picture in my mind, but that’s very static.

That race, you know, it’s it’s one road. Everyone goes the same way across the finish line. We’re good. And the way that video presented it was, People are just gonna be popping out of places.

Jill: Yeah. It’s gonna be just a surprise everywhere you look. And it also sounded like, I may be wrong about this because I thought I saw it somewhere that the ceremony may actually take place a little earlier.

It wouldn’t be a totally nighttime thing. It might be earlier around sunset. So you’d get some of the morning, some of the evening. Yeah. It’s just, the city of lights all pops up. It’s gotta be, be.

Alison: And did it actually make sense for the Paralympics in many ways to have it earlier in the day?

Because at least for the Winter Paralympics, they do not have any events on the day of opening ceremony, unlike the Olympics. So having it finished earlier may allow some athletes to come who are competing that next day that wouldn’t be able to mm-hmm. .

Jill: Mm-hmm. could very well be. One of the big selling points on this is also the fact that the whole event is going to be accessible to all, and there’s going to be some free access as well.

So you might be able to see parts of the opening ceremony or pro, My guess would be the parade of nations would be where some free access is, but how could they not have big screens up and around showing some of this stuff somewhere in the heart of the.

Alison: And there are buildings near there. You know, There are gonna people who camp out on the roof of the building.

Oh my gosh. Just like the fireworks in New York City. Mm-hmm. , people just climb up into their roofs or go out on their patios. And if it’s outside and open, I mean, they’re not gonna block it from people. That defeats the whole purpose.

Jill: Right. So if you have an apartment along the Shpe LA and you would like to have a couple of guests for a few weeks, let us know.

We’d love to have that view. So I did wonder what LA 2020 eighth reaction is to all of this, because they have to, Well, we can’t have a whole paraded nations down the center of the street. They’d get stuck in traffic ,

Alison: but LA also still has the coliseum. Yes. So they can kind of play that 84 card and 32 and 30.

Yes. to say this is continuing. Mm-hmm. . I hope they go that route. I hope they go the route of, we are gonna draw this line. 32, 84,

Jill: 28. That would be very cool. You know what else would be very cool if they had one of those rocket men come back in. Oh,

We’ll have to, we’ll find a link. There’s gotta be a YouTube video of this where it was a guy in like, who had a rocket jet propulsion pack kind of thing on his back and he just kind of flew in to the stadium. That would be great. Well,

Alison: Paris has been, perfecting the drone technology for the Olympics and Paralympics.

Hmm. La get on jet packs,

Jill: All right. We would like to give a shout out to our Patreon patrons who help keep our flame alive. If you would like to become a patron checkout Alive pod, we are testing some new bonus features for patrons of all levels right now. So, You’re curious as to what we’re doing. We think it’s pretty cool, and hopefully they’ll stick.

So, check it out. live pod. And [01:00:00] that is going to do it for this week. Let us know your thoughts on gymnastics routines and wolf turns.

Alison: You can reach us by email at Flame Alive pod Call or text us at (208) 352-6348. That’s 2 0 8. Flame it. Our social handle is at Flame Alive Pod.

Be sure to join the Keep the Flame Alive Podcast group on Facebook

Jill: next week. Uh, We are going to shift over to the winter sports season cuz everyone’s getting back in action again, we will be talking with short track speed skater Ryan Shane. So we have learned so much about short track speed skating and we are excited to share that with you.

So thank you so much for listening and until next time, keep the flame alive.